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Help with next step to shoot the "cheap" ammo


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Anyone got a suggestion to offer that will help me shoot the "cheap" ammo. Yesterday I tried some Federal and Winchester 7 1/2 shot and both FTE (ie. failure to extract) every shot.

 

This gun has had probably 40 slugs though it and 100+ high brass for a break-in. I've been using a gas booster bushing, and recently added a low power recoil spring. Slugs and high brass work great, but I'm really wanting to shoot the cheap stuff. If I can get it to shoot the cheap ammo, I will definitely switch back to the OEM spring for slugs.

 

Trying to think about anything that would cause "drag" on the bolt, I'm using a T&N trigger group. I also played with both 5 round and 10 round mags that were loaded with only 2 shells. It just seems as though there isn't enough pressure to bring the bolt back far enough to eject the shell and it simply re-inserts the emply shell into the barrel. Also, I'm providing a firm shoulder to get the inertia of the bolt to move rearward. I clean and lubricate after each session and I cannot find anywhere that drags when I hand cycle the bolt.

 

I wish that I would have thought about this yesterday while at the range, but the only thing that I have left is to see if it makes a difference with the factory bolt handle. Possibly the extra mass of the T&N charging handle is something to remove and see if it makes a difference.

 

Any suggesions? Mine is a pre-XN model. Anything that can be done to improve the gas piston seal or open the gas port (ie. like I've done for the Saiga 12)?

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I've got a lot more rounds down range than you do but still locked into Remington Gun Club loads at 1200 fps. They give me 100% reliability. So far I also get 100% with Remington Managed Recoil slugs and Rio Low Recoil buckshot.

 

About two weeks ago I carried a bunch of misc rounds from the garage to see if my gun can handle them. Last time I tried this the gun had less than 500 rds through it.

 

I also have the gas booster, reduced power recoil spring and aftermarket charging handle.

 

The Walmart Winchester bulk ammo (1200 fps) was less than 50% reliable. FTF only.

 

Estate Dove loads (1200 fps) were around 75% reliable. FTF only.

 

Winchester AA Lite Target loads (1145 fps?) were less than 25% reliable. FTF and FTE.

 

This was the first time I ran this test with the new Firebird Precision aluminum lower installed on a pre-XN upper. As always, I run it wet.

 

I had hopes for better reliability with a greater selection of ammo, but I'm not there yet.

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We had something similar on Thur-Fri, it just wouldn't run the low brass, turned out to be some small slivers of black plastic under the gas relief , we at first just thought it was some carbon, from the 100+ rounds ran through it.

 

I have no idea where it came from (pretty sure it was not from any shells) seemed to be the same polymer as the lower, maybe from the MFG process, anyway we took that out, ran fine. It was venting just a small portion of the gas , causing the malfunction.

 

While yours maybe different, the symptoms are the same. Hope this helps.

 

Some pre-XN's take 100+ of the heavier loads, also do you have our hammer or the original? We redesigned the hammer to help with this problem, the new XN's have a similar hammer now as well

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We had something similar on Thur-Fri, it just wouldn't run the low brass, turned out to be some small slivers of black plastic under the gas relief , we at first just thought it was some carbon, from the 100+ rounds ran through it.

 

I have no idea where it came from (pretty sure it was not from any shells) seemed to be the same polymer as the lower, maybe from the MFG process, anyway we took that out, ran fine. It was venting just a small portion of the gas , causing the malfunction.

 

While yours maybe different, the symptoms are the same. Hope this helps.

 

Some pre-XN's take 100+ of the heavier loads, also do you have our hammer or the original? We redesigned the hammer to help with this problem, the new XN's have a similar hammer now as well

 

If I'm remembering correctly, the original T&N trigger group did not include the redesigned hammer. I want to say that this was offered a little later after I received mine. Do you sell just the redesigned hammer? And will it function with your early-release trigger group for a non-XM model?

 

CIMG4842.JPG

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Mine eats Walmart bulk pack and asks for seconds. T&N put all the goodies in my 1919 and I couldn't be happier.

 

That's where I want to be! Range trips are just more fun for myself as well as the hoards of persons that are curious if I can feed it the cheap stuff from Walmart. Sure, I'll plan to at a minimum put the OEM recoil spring back in for high brass/slugs if I begin using it for 3-gun.

 

If this were a Saiga, then I'd be working on additional/expanding the gas port. This isn't my first rodeo regarding building/tweaking firearms, but it's my first MKA and at the moment trying the new T&N hammer is the last thing before I make more drastic attempts.

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I also have a pre XN model with a Tooth and Nail charge handle and reduced power recoil spring.

Have had the same results as Flatland with the 1200fps Remington Gun Club shells.

Can be found for $6.20 a box of 25.

Don't know how this compares to Wallmart stuff as I won't set foot in their stores due to their anti union policies.

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Don't know how this compares to Wallmart stuff as I won't set foot in their stores due to their anti union policies.

Next to government, unions are the biggest parasite in America. In my opinion of course. I have no scientific data to prove or disprove previous statement. Please keep retaliatory tirades polite.

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When I was just a little boy my old granny sat me on her knee.

Said boy there is on fixing stupid.

Words from a wise old lady. She was kind enough to take the time to share with me.

So retaliatory comments, polite or not are wasted time and effort.

I'm not one to try and change opinions no matter how wrong they are.

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From experience, our company (non-union) can do twice the work, twice the quality, in half the time and half the price as a union company. I spend a large percentage of my time replacing and repairing the work of union plumbers, electricians, welders, and pipe fitters. Now I'm not saying all union workers put out sloppy work. I've seen plenty of great stuff in my time. But the extra expense is crazy to me. It doesn't seem like it's going in to average joes pocket. Unions sure didn't help Detroit in the long run.

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open up the gasports

 

Done... The re-designed hammer from T&N has arrived and I went ahead and opened the gas ports to the next size which turned out to be 1/8". Mine is nowhere close to running the cheap ammo, so I've done both steps before my next range trip.

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i gave up on running Winchester 7 1/2 ammo 1200 even with a gas booster bushing, lighter recoil spring and a new gas piston in it its a crap shoot with about 25 persent reliability, i have probally a 1000 rounds through it, Remington runs perfect!! keep us posted i would like to know what it took.

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i gave up on running Winchester 7 1/2 ammo 1200 even with a gas booster bushing, lighter recoil spring and a new gas piston in it its a crap shoot with about 25 persent reliability, i have probally a 1000 rounds through it, Remington runs perfect!! keep us posted i would like to know what it took.

 

I think a lot of it has to do with the weather. When it was cooler, I had less problems with Winchester, Federal and Estate shells. The warmer it got, the worse these shells performed.

 

The Remington Gun Club hulls seem to stay a little harder than the others in warm weather.

 

Shot a 3 Gun Match this past weekend using Remington Gun Club shells only. Ran 100% despite the 106 degree heat.

 

Bill

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