Paleofit 3 Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 I've got an S-12 I converted myself using a TAPCO fire control group. The initial cycling issues seem to have managed to work themselves out cycling 1 oz loads reliably with the stock return spring and adjustable plug. I cannot, however seem to be able to figure out why the trigger will not reset properly. To date, I have tried the following to no effect: Notched the BHO for its spring - it has not fallen off as far as I can tell. Swapped between the stock and JTE hammer springs. Both stay in place as far as I can tell. Swapped original and TAPCO hammers. Swapped shepherds crook for retaining plate. This took up the side to side play of the TAPCO hammer. Even with the play taken out of the hammer, the BHO still has some play at the end where the tab sticks out the receiver - enough that it still may clear the internal rails a bit. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the reset issue or not. I am at the point however that I am willing to try it without the BHO. It's that or find a way to put a spacer of some kind to see if keeping the BHO under the rail changes anything. The reset issue never manifests during hand cycling - only when firing. Any suggestions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Make sure the 2 hammer spring arms are sitting as far back as possible on the back of the trigger to push it down for reset. Chances are one side may be falling slightly inward and not putting pressure on the back. I would also tie the spring arms up on the hammer and see if you feel the trigger is binding or catching on anything when you move it back and forth. It should move easily. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 you beat me to it. Also check for paint globs or burrs on engagement surfaces that could cause sticking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paleofit 3 Posted August 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Thanks! Well, it would appear that the spring arm next to the BHO did indeed slide inward. I just checked it after coming back from the range. This is only happening when firing and the reset problem was happening with both hammer springs. Everything else as suggested above checks out fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 So you did the outward bends to fix it right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Its probably the right hand spring leg that slid inward. Pull the leg up and out of the receiver, then grab the end of it with a pair of pliers and twist it clockwise. That will bend it so it angles down towards the right and will keep it in position. Tony 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paleofit 3 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Okay, I've got the bend in it now. I don't have a lot of confidence in it as the bends at the end where it rests on the trigger - that area is pretty small with very little to rest on the trigger. I did notice that as the hammer goes back, the spring winds up enough that you can see it shortening. I am assuming that if the bend in the arm is insufficient or incorrect, that as the arm shortens, it will slip off inward. Next step...range testing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Okay, I've got the bend in it now. I don't have a lot of confidence in it as the bends at the end where it rests on the trigger - that area is pretty small with very little to rest on the trigger. I did notice that as the hammer goes back, the spring winds up enough that you can see it shortening. I am assuming that if the bend in the arm is insufficient or incorrect, that as the arm shortens, it will slip off inward. Next step...range testing... Start paying attention at the 6 minute mark. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Once done, you will quit having problems. I had that one happen to me just after doing my first conversion, and was rather embarrassed at the range. No problems since doing the bend and thousands of rounds in between restores that confidence. Sometimes small changes make a big difference Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paleofit 3 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Still tinkering and observing...I don't think it would have functioned correctly. This time I put more pressure on the hammer as I was holding the trigger back. As I did this, the hammer pushed the spring out of place which then caused the trigger to not reset. After adding the clockwise twist Tony recommended, it seemed to be doing better. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paleofit 3 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 So here's a little snippet of the results...http://youtu.be/pTRKURurj00. I went through twenty slugs and twenty-five rounds of low-brass 7 1/2 shot without a single issue. Now to get some more stick mags, a butt-stock with riser, and a lot more practice on Saiga-12 manual of arms. Thanks for the tips - that spring arm twist fix should be stickied IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Glad to hear it worked! I had to do the same. Now, I lift the spring arm high and let it fall where it will and it falls and sets itself onto the trigger arm properly every time. Never an issue since. The key is to man handle that spring. I was afraid I would break it but twisted hard to get it fixed. Great job. Many of the guys here really know their stuff. Happy shooting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I am curious about what you have clamped to the top of the gas block. nice to see another happy owner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paleofit 3 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) I replaced the adjustable sight rib with the Ultimak rail. Attached to it are a spare mini-red dot sight I had and an offset rail that I put there to mount a light. Edited August 23, 2013 by Paleofit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 It's probably the light mount then. I know there are a couple of guys who would really like to get one of those ribs. AZG for instance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I have the same problem with my Tapco G1 FCG and it won't reset. I checked the spring arms and that's not the problem. A friend told me that it will work itself out with wear but with shotguns you don't fire as many rounds for it to wear out fast. It's annoying and if anyone has any solutions please let me know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 uzitiger, is there adequate clearance between the FCG and the hole it drops through? I've seen the Tapco's catch at the rear (see post 2). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paleofit 3 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Another difference I saw between the stock hammer and the Tapco was that the stock hammer is clearly made to be used with a single hook whereas the Tapco looks like it can be used with a double hook. The "wing" on the unused side (the side with no hook, next to the BHO) of the Tapco hammer is what was pushing my hammer spring off the trigger. It wouldn't do it while hand cycling the action but if you press down really hard on the hammer, you'll see it push spring off. The clockwise twist of the spring arm allows the spring to be fully clear of the hammer. I suppose one could also grind down the "wing" like the stock hammer, but for me, the twist did got it running properly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MinutemanX 32 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 I had two seperate trigger reset hangups, drove me nuts figuring it out. The first was the spring sliding over as first mentioned. The second was rough surfaces / bad angles on the Tapco FCG I had. Weird thing was I couldn't duplicate the hangup manually at my bench, it would only hangup when I actually shot the gun. I had to take my saiga out, shoot it, then pop the hood and inspect. What I found was that the disconnect hook was hanging up on the hammer sear edge. I filed/polished the sear and under the disconnect slightly till it slipped off easily. I had to take the gun out and shoot several times to get it right. Never a problem since. Saiga's suck sometimes but the coolest thing about them is you really get to know the ins and outs of your weapon 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I was going to say that so far each tapco trigger I have checked is not totally 'square' - not quite the right term, but what I mean is that if you look very closely, the engagement surfaces aren't quite flat, and are generally not quite on the same plane with each other. careful polish & debur with a diamond or ceramic knife sharpener is a good way to true up the engagements and make your trigger a lot smoother. Keep the slip angles the same and also the amount of engagement, just fix the angles on the side to side planes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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