New Saiga Owner- Need info on Haley's accessories

[bigbrianaustin 0]

So I recently acquired a S12 and it currently is set up with the Tapco T6 Pistol Grip and Stock, but I want to get it 922r compliant and also make it look as close to the S12 used by Travis Haley in the Art of the Dynamic Shotgun. I love how it looks, but more importantly, the accessories make it ideal for 3-gun. I have a friend who professionaly Duracoats, so the painting part is taken care of, but I was hoping to get some input on the accessories, or as close as I can get to them. So far I have found the following:

 

Stock is a Magpul CTR in FDE w/ Cheek riser (meaning I would need to do the AR buffer tube conversion), grip is a Magpul MIAD in FDE with a black backstrap, and the front grip is a Magpul AFG in FDE. I have found various charging handles that would work, but here's where I need a little help. I can't figure out if it is a completely custom rail setup, or if it is a mixture of aftermarkets and also can't figure out which brake is on the gun. The closest I have found is actually the UTG Quadrail, but it's definitely not exactly the same. I have looked at the Chaos Titan and it is a little different, but looks like a solid system. Just wondering if anyone has ever seen something similar. I know the gun was an E-Tac custom, but I haven't found anything on their site, and have heard horror stories about their customer service recently. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Here's a pic for reference... Thanks!

 

[EthanM 514]

Are you gonna go SBS? If your leaving the gas block in the factory position.you could use the ultimak top rail for saiga 12 and then a Tri rail. Chaos maybe would look similar

[gunfun 3,931]

Well, that breaching standoff looks cool, but I think it would actually be a handicap for 3 gun. It isn't really a muzzle brake or compensator, and if welded on, it interferes with your ability to use chokes. You could thread for internal chokes though which would be pretty good, but IMO it makes more sense to do something like that with a functional MBC.

 

The top rail is well done, and out of production, check out member Funked Out's posts to find how he very nicely altered one into an even better setup.

 

For 3 gun, you want to get smooth and fast so a magwell trumps all of the other gadgets. Next comes light and then probably an optic mount.

 

The gun looks fine, but I would suggest requesting a test drive. Generally the E-tac guns that were made before he bit off more than he could chew and started screwing people were considered to be good looking competently made guns with nice attention to detail.

[smb 3]

The brake/breach is an E-Tac Talon. I have one on mine but I am looking to sell it soon. I would love to trade for a Russian 10 slot hider if I could.

[gunfun 3,931]

They are both cosmetic parts. IMO the etac one looked really cool, but unless you plan on opening your gardening shed with your shotgun that's all they are really good for. That said, almost every time I show someone the IZ108 if I don't have the choke on, the first thing that someone says is how cool the basic MD 10 slot looks. The Etac one is kinda cooler to me if you have a railed up tacticool gun, but it would look out of place on a more traditional gun.

[HarvKY 72]

That muzzle device looks similar to the one from King Armory. They make it with smooth end or breecher "teeth"

 

The lower tri-rail reminds me of an Ulitimak long version but thyey dont list anything for S12 lowers. Not sure if the AK version would adapt?

 

1 caveat is that it can get heavy with all that stuff.

 

Good luck

 

Harv

[gunfun 3,931]

I think people have adapted ultimaks to S12. I know cobra offers a custom rail that fits there too.

 

Either has got to be lighter than a full quad and probably more solid. It also leaves you the option of more comfortable grips.

 

As for King Armory... I think his came after the E-Tek and doesn't look quite as sharp. E-tec does have some stylistic cuts which likely reduce effectiveness compared to his. KA can rightfully claim to be the inventor of the booster puck (an item which E-tec failed to improve upon), but his copy on his site about setting out to make the first "effective" shotgun comp is laughable. (and I doubt is design is particularly effective based on what testing I've done.) Cutts comps go back to something like the 1930s, and competitors have been using more advanced designs for years. I am pretty sure the tromix shark brake has been for sale since at least 2007, and I would bet money it does more for recoil and muzzle flip.

 

I think the mini-monster looks better than either. JTE makes a pretty good comp too, and there is also the GKO1. Lots of good looking choices likely to outperform KA's design. It's about location of venting and gas vectoring. He doesn't have complex shapes, so it is purely a matter of perpendicular surface area. stress on other designs show that the area where most work is done is about 3/4" to 1 1/4" from the first vent at the muzzle. His design has a large initial vent, and only one set of perpendicular surface int he prime area. The subsequent "blast baffles" are located past where most of the pressure has dissipated, so there is diminishing returns on compensating effect. I'd be happy to test one, but his claims don't match well with his design, and don't seem very fair to his competition.

 

he was a vendor here when I signed on, and I own one of his pucks. He gave me good customer support too, and apparently has finally started selling the barrels he teased years ago. I respect that, but those things don't earn him a pass with me on the gross exaggerations with his brake though. If he's still a member here, I'd appreciate comments. There is a certain amount of room for puffery, opinion and taste, but his descriptions necessarily claim that prior offerings are not effective. That kind of statement belongs only on the discovery channel.

Edited August 27, 2013 by GunFun

[bigbrianaustin 0]

I really appreciate the comments from everyone. That is exactly what I was looking for. I will look into the different rails and Funked Out's ideas. As far as brakes, I do understand the difference for competition/looks and I would most likely look more into the ballistics before I made a final decision. I'll admit, I am a bit of a tacticool guy, but I'll always be more function-minded. I've been a bird hunter, so I understand the importance of chokes. This is a great site, and I can't wait to get more input and ideas!

[Garys4598 1,065]

. . . . I can't figure out if it is a completely custom rail setup, or if it is a mixture of aftermarkets and also can't figure out which brake is on the gun. The closest I have found is actually the UTG Quadrail, but it's definitely not exactly the same.. . . . Just wondering if anyone has ever seen something similar. I know the gun was an E-Tac custom, but I haven't found anything on their site, and have heard horror stories about their customer service recently. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

As a former E-Tac / GoGun customer, I see that you've already pretty much hit upon the most important factor: their (his) horrible customer service. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. . . but I'll say no more about it.

 

If you are truly adamant about the muzzle device, then you can attempt to purchase one from the GoGun USA website. It's referred to as the "SuperComp Talon Brake for Breaching - Saiga-12". I just checked their website and it's listed for $99, but it also states "out of stock."

 

Regarding the picatinny rail on the gas tube, I believe your assessment is spot-on that it is both a custom rail setup, using a mixture of aftermarket parts. So, it is truly a "one of" or "one off" (depending on how you like to say it). The forend tri-rail appears to me to definitely be an UltiMAK 'long" AK Modular Rail Forend System. I'd simply go with that, and the UltiMAK gas tube Optics Mount. I did. . . and below is a photo of my Saiga IZ-240 rifle:

 

Edited August 28, 2013 by Gary

[bigbrianaustin 0]

Awesome Gary, that is just what I was hoping for. To see another member's gun. I definitely appreciate it. I did see the transition to GoGun for Esteban, and I am up in the air, and if I do decide to use it for 3 gun, I may go with a different brake, but I saw that they have now renamed them to that. Thanks again!

[gunfun 3,931]

Etac breifly sold a rail as shown abovet as a bolt on part. It is not ultimak. That is what funked out used as the basis of his project.

[Garys4598 1,065]

Awesome Gary, that is just what I was hoping for. To see another member's gun. I definitely appreciate it. I did see the transition to GoGun for Esteban, and I am up in the air, and if I do decide to use it for 3 gun, I may go with a different brake, but I saw that they have now renamed them to that. Thanks again!

 

If you just have to have a gun like Travis Haley's. . . . you could approach Red Letter Industries, which also happens to be located on Hawaii. They finished-up my Saiga rifle. The guy running RLI used to work for and apprenticed with Cem Esteban. But absolutely under no condition or situation should you do business with Esteban. . . he is a thief, liar, and sociopath.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Gary

[gunfun 3,931]

. . he is a thief, liar, and sociopath.

 

 

That could possibly be applied to the guys at Red Letter Media, but they are hilarious.

[ec4321 113]

I am fairly positive I have a shorter version of this brake in my parts bin.

 

PM me if interested.