Thor's Hammer 33 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 They have some interesting stuff out today. This model in particular would be turn-key albeit a bit pricey, but the non-removable muzzle attachment is a deal breaker for me unless it's just a small tack weld. http://legionusainc.com/vepr-12-shotgun.html Then they got this one, but it looks like they fubar'd the rear folder to allow the factory railed handguard to be used. A very unwise tradeoff if you ask me. Don't get me wrong, I love the new offerings! Just providing a little honest customer feedback. Also there's a pretty cool Saiga 12K in the lineup. It doesn't have the same cool factor as the magwell designs IMO, but it might actually be the best buy of the bunch... . 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 The ring on the folder release is tac welded to the lever, probably a smarter way to 'disable' the folder. There is a close up of this on the picture thread. The muzzle device - ICK... I agree. However, people are reporting that it is pinned. Still not good, but better than soldered on, I suppose. The barrels are thin so you have to be careful with pin depth, drill depth for removal and heat for soldering. I'd much rather then left the barrel alone and put a US muzzle device non-perm for 922 if need be. Given the value of the railed gas block and labor (if you have to have one) and 922 parts, this is a nice value. Notice they also have the lettering filled. Hope a premium place will bring in a crossbolt for me some day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Legion USA 107 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hey guys, just to clear up any confusion we received these shotguns with the muzzle device pinned in and the folding buttstock has a welded ring on the release lever. Both of these things can be removed without too much difficulty. I assure you that the integrity of the barrel is not compromised when we remove the original muzzle device. We have 3 models available, one unconverted just how we got it from Molot, one converted without replacing the muzzle device, and one converted with the Molot muzzle brake which is then welded on. If anybody would like to purchase a Vepr from us and use a different muzzle brake, we can install the muzzle brake that you provide. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Can you provide a link to each? I am did not see one with a muzzle brake.. ? Disregard. Here it is: http://legionusainc.com/vepr-12-tactical-shotgun-gk-01-edition.html Can you tell us what the OAL is with the Molot Muzzle break welded on is? Details on the weld? It is easy to cut? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Legion USA 107 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 The overall length is 41inches, and the welded ring can be removed with a dremel cutting tool. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 The overall length is 41inches, and the welded ring can be removed with a dremel cutting tool. Sorry, I mean OAL of the barrel + muzzle device.... specifically the one with the Molot brake perm attached? Very important to also understand how that brake is attached. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hey guys, just to clear up any confusion we received these shotguns with the muzzle device pinned in and the folding buttstock has a welded ring on the release lever. Both of these things can be removed without too much difficulty. I assure you that the integrity of the barrel is not compromised when we remove the original muzzle device. We have 3 models available, one unconverted just how we got it from Molot, one converted without replacing the muzzle device, and one converted with the Molot muzzle brake which is then welded on. If anybody would like to purchase a Vepr from us and use a different muzzle brake, we can install the muzzle brake that you provide. Molot makes a few versions of the brake, a titanium version, an all steel version and an aluminum brake with a steel ring for the threads. Then there is the CSS ~clone of the 3rd type. Which are yours using? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) I suppose it is not Legion brings these Veprs - it is AQUILA ARMS LLC, another V12 importer (not WPA) if to belive to the stamp on the V12 receiver. As I can see on the Legion pics, AQUILA import standard V12 model VPO-205-00 (430 mm = 16,92" BBL) as is sell in Russia, except welded muzzle attach that increase BBL to 19" and welded ring on the release lever. Assuming that, if I'm wright this V12 GB (holes in BBL) is optimized for 430 mm, good news for guys who going convert it to SBS V12 (just to remove pinned muzzle device). For shorter BBL V12 another configuration of GB holes is needed. This model, is easiest way to restore RUSSIAN ORIGINAL VEPR-12 VPO-205-00 model from the box: 1) remove pinned muzzle device 2) remove welded ring on the release lever 3) attach Original Molot FH (18,5 mm ID) UPDATE on the left side of the receiver we see pained Molot marks in Russian: ВП, ГИС, 13, П on the right side of the receiver we see pained Molot marks in Russian: П О, Сделано в России, ВЕПРЬ-12 Молот meanings are here that are made for local Russian market , IMO these V12 was not made for US as WPA models, that has export Molot marks in English. UPDATE 2 I suppose these V12 also has Russian marks on BBL under Upper Handguard/Gas Tube and Buttstock Clamp (#3 on the following diagram) Detailed Molot Vepr-12 VPO-205-00 Diagram #3 Buttstock Clamp is a plate isnide the receiver, that interact to Safety and Folding Mech. When safety selector is Up you can fold down the buttstock, when down - could't, when the buttstock is folded down you can not put down safety selector (Russian law of min length of weapon is 800 mm), and make the fire. Buttstock Clamp is on the left side of Bolt carrier Rails Buttstock Clamp is connected to the Safety Edited August 31, 2013 by PapaZorro 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Wow. Nice. Having the gas holes in a place optimized for the shorter BBL is a huge plus. Legion, can you confirm? Really want the details on how the Molot brakes are attached. Please. Edited August 30, 2013 by ec4321 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Wow. Nice. Having the gas holes in a place optimized for the shorter BBL is a huge plus. Legion, can you confirm? Really want the details on how the Molot brakes are attached. Please. As I've wrote above, IMO, these are local models - VPO-205-00 430 (430 mm = 16,92" BBL), so they optimized for 430 mm, for models with shorter BBL 305 and 330 mm different dia conf required!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Im just glad they are coming in with the railed GB. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Legion - Besides the question on the total barrel length including the perm attached Molot brake - Is the rail on dust cover plastic or metal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vette447 11 Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Damn. I thought I was happy with my V-12s and then you come in with something even closer to the original. That is what I have been wanting. However, I can not see what the brake/hider looks like that is permanently attached. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doodi1 23 Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Damn. I thought I was happy with my V-12s and then you come in with something even closer to the original. That is what I have been wanting. My Sentiments exactly. I have bought 3 VEPR 12's (2 Square Backs and one with a FSF) and now this one comes out~! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 You missed one important model (may be the tastiest flavor of them all): 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 I wish we could get in Molot Arms offerings here in the US... look at this delicious IPSC wild boar... http://molotarms.ru/index.php?p=shop&action=showproduct&id=431&cid=18&pname=karabin-gladkostvolnyi-039-vepr-12-molot-039-vpo-206-430-dlya-ipsc 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 I wish we could get in Molot Arms offerings here in the US... look at this delicious IPSC wild boar... http://molotarms.ru/index.php?p=shop&action=showproduct&id=431&cid=18&pname=karabin-gladkostvolnyi-039-vepr-12-molot-039-vpo-206-430-dlya-ipsc YOU AND ME BOTH. Cross bolt safety goodness. This one does not appear to be a folder though, btw. My ideal would be folder, M4 buffer adapter, metail rail and metal mag well, railed GSB, and ported for shorter barrels. I know it's probably not going to happen in that exact combination. But I will promise any importer that brings one, I will buy at least ONE. if that isn't motivation, gee I don't know what is. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thor's Hammer 33 Posted September 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Count me as impressed. It looks like Legion raised the Vepr bar with this offering. Makes it hard for a fella to keep an intact piggy bank. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 My ideal would be folder, M4 buffer adapter, metail rail and metal mag well, railed GSB, and ported for shorter barrels. I know it's probably not going to happen in that exact combination. But I will promise any importer that brings one, I will buy at least ONE. if that isn't motivation, gee I don't know what is. You just described my dream shotgun, especially with the Molot folding AR adapter. The adapter is very pricey and I heard lots of swear words well be yelled during installation. Would be great if Legion would offer a model with adapter already installed. The only thing I'm on the fence about is which brake. Legion said they could place a different brake on it per customers request. Considering folding stock, and welded on brake for shorter barrel, seems off to me to use a GK-01. While its performance is undeniable, I think I would prefer a firestorm or even a Russian flash-hider to keep up the compactness of the weapon. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 My ideal would be folder, M4 buffer adapter, metail rail and metal mag well, railed GSB, and ported for shorter barrels. I know it's probably not going to happen in that exact combination. But I will promise any importer that brings one, I will buy at least ONE. if that isn't motivation, gee I don't know what is. You just described my dream shotgun, especially with the Molot folding AR adapter. The adapter is very pricey and I heard lots of swear words well be yelled during installation. Would be great if Legion would offer a model with adapter already installed. The only thing I'm on the fence about is which brake. Legion said they could place a different brake on it per customers request. Considering folding stock, and welded on brake for shorter barrel, seems off to me to use a GK-01. While its performance is undeniable, I think I would prefer a firestorm or even a Russian flash-hider to keep up the compactness of the weapon. I forgot to list the crossbolt safety in my list but it's on the one in the picture. I do want that as well. I agree about the brake - If I get a legion model from their current line up, I will not get the one with the molot brake, instead something I can de-pin and put my own brake on. Although, I am not sure which one. I have the firestorm perm on my current vepr and it's a great design, would use it again, but they need to open up the ID so it stops shaving wads and they have acknowledged this but I think current stock is all the same ID. Until that changes I can't buy another. Here is what I am thinking on the M4 folder. I may ask my custom guy about how possible it would be to cut a buffer tube at the threads and weld it to the folding plate after cutting of the stock folder. If it is possible to do so properly, I think I would like the results even better as the buffer tube would protrude even less. I am not certain about doing another vepr right now though. I have too many projects going as it is, and I may just wait for more options to come on shore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doodi1 23 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 I wish we could get in Molot Arms offerings here in the US... look at this delicious IPSC wild boar... http://molotarms.ru/index.php?p=shop&action=showproduct&id=431&cid=18&pname=karabin-gladkostvolnyi-039-vepr-12-molot-039-vpo-206-430-dlya-ipsc YOU AND ME BOTH. Cross bolt safety goodness. This one does not appear to be a folder though, btw. My ideal would be folder, M4 buffer adapter, metail rail and metal mag well, railed GSB, and ported for shorter barrels. I know it's probably not going to happen in that exact combination. But I will promise any importer that brings one, I will buy at least ONE. if that isn't motivation, gee I don't know what is. Now this one would be the ultimate VEPR 12. With a Folder would make it perfect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Legion USA 107 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Legion - Besides the question on the total barrel length including the perm attached Molot brake - Is the rail on dust cover plastic or metal? Barrel length with the Molot GK-01 is 21.3 inches, and 19 inches with the standard Molot barrel shroud. The rail on the dust cover is plastic. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Legion USA 107 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hey guys, just to clear up any confusion we received these shotguns with the muzzle device pinned in and the folding buttstock has a welded ring on the release lever. Both of these things can be removed without too much difficulty. I assure you that the integrity of the barrel is not compromised when we remove the original muzzle device. We have 3 models available, one unconverted just how we got it from Molot, one converted without replacing the muzzle device, and one converted with the Molot muzzle brake which is then welded on. If anybody would like to purchase a Vepr from us and use a different muzzle brake, we can install the muzzle brake that you provide. Molot makes a few versions of the brake, a titanium version, an all steel version and an aluminum brake with a steel ring for the threads. Then there is the CSS ~clone of the 3rd type. Which are yours using? We have the steel Molot muzzle brakes. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hey guys, just to clear up any confusion we received these shotguns with the muzzle device pinned in and the folding buttstock has a welded ring on the release lever. Both of these things can be removed without too much difficulty. I assure you that the integrity of the barrel is not compromised when we remove the original muzzle device. We have 3 models available, one unconverted just how we got it from Molot, one converted without replacing the muzzle device, and one converted with the Molot muzzle brake which is then welded on. If anybody would like to purchase a Vepr from us and use a different muzzle brake, we can install the muzzle brake that you provide. Molot makes a few versions of the brake, a titanium version, an all steel version and an aluminum brake with a steel ring for the threads. Then there is the CSS ~clone of the 3rd type. Which are yours using? We have the steel Molot muzzle brakes. What kind Molot MB do you mean? Can you post some pics, please. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Legion USA 107 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 It's the Gk-01 muzzle brake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Cool. There are a lot of people who would buy that from you as a standalone accessory too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 It's the Gk-01 muzzle brake Maybe I'm mistaking, but Original GK-01 is made from Al, not Steel (steel insert in al body only).I've seen a couple Custom made by Molot Ti GK-01 (I know their owner ), but have never seen or heard about steel version. We have the steel Molot muzzle brakes. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fourtfourmag 4 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) It's the Gk-01 muzzle brake Maybe I'm mistaking, but Original GK-01 is made from Al, not Steel (steel insert in al body only).I've seen a couple Custom made by Molot Ti GK-01 (I know their owner ), but have never seen or heard about steel version. We have the steel Molot muzzle brakes. Papa, I have 2 GK-01's on hand from Legion. The first is a brushed aluminum body with a steel polished threaded steel insert & nut. The most recent one from Legion is aluminum as well but it simply looks parked, and has hardening marks all over it every few MM. Both weigh 212 grams or 220 grams with the alignment nut included. 44 Edited September 5, 2013 by fourtfourmag 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Legion USA 107 Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 It's the Gk-01 muzzle brake Maybe I'm mistaking, but Original GK-01 is made from Al, not Steel (steel insert in al body only).I've seen a couple Custom made by Molot Ti GK-01 (I know their owner ), but have never seen or heard about steel version. We have the steel Molot muzzle brakes. Sorry, you are correct they are aluminum with a threaded steel insert. I can only imagine how heavy they would be if they were all steel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Do you sell just the brakes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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