Saiga 223 newbie

[nmusti 0]

Hi all,

I'm a Saiga 223 newbie and have a couple questions, but bear with me and I'll provide you with a little history before my questions. I apologize in advance if this gets a little lenghty.

I'd been looking for an AR-type 223 rifle for several months. I was looking for something modestly priced that I could use for plinking and a SHTF option if needed. I already own several handguns and a few rifles in different calibers, but not a .223. During my research I determined a Saiga 223 was my best option as opposed to buying a low end AR, such as a DPMS Oracle or Sportical, particularly since I should be able to use steel-cased ammo, like Wolf (500 rnds on order) or Tula. Yes, I've read about the possible FTE issues, but for plinking and getting familiar with the saiga, I figured I could deal with it.

Pardon the pun, but I bit the bullet last week and bought what looks like a barely used Saiga 223 from a pawnbroker off of gunbroker and it just arrived yesterday. It came without a manual, or the cleaning kit and does not appear to have very many rounds thru it. Previous owner put a Tapco adjustable buttstock with pistol grip and some rails on the forearm for attachments, no stock 10 round mag, but did come with a 30 rnd promag mag. No bullet guide mod either. The serial # is H1216xxxx, which based on what I could find on this site, means it was manufactured in 2012, right? And also from stuff I've read online the promag mag fits pretty snug, I didn't notice any wobble at all. Probably won't get out to the range with it until next weekend at the earliest.

So hear are a couple of my questions:

Do I really need to do the bullet guide mod?

Do I really need the cleaning kit? I found one online for about $15

I found a manual, but it doesn't show the 223, but the 308, should still be fine, right? also found plenty of youtube videos on disassembly.

My most important question: magazines?? A lot of posts I've read online seem to be a few years old and guessing on the age of my saiga and newer mags coming out, I wonder how much of an issue they are. If I buy either some more promags or even better surefire/SGM mags do I really need to worry about doing the bullet guide mod? Are FTEs a bigger issue w/o the bullet guide?? I've been able to find some of the above mags for around $15/ea, I've even found some SGM metal mags for around $60, but I'd rather have a few $15 mags for plinking that are somewhat reliable and maybe later pick up a couple higher end mags to have ready for a SHTF scenario.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[vulcan16 971]

I'll pm you later today with some SGM mags at a decent price.

Non forum vendor links aren't allowed to be posted on the main forums.

 

Correct on the 2012 build date.

[mancat 2,368]

Unless you want to buy a bunch of mags, you'll probably be fine with the SGM mags.

 

The only real reason to install the bullet guide is if you want to use surplus mags (and there only a few kinds of surplus .223 AK mag) , or commercial .223 AK mags that are designed for other types of AKs. The main reason many people install the bullet guide is that non-Saiga commercial .223 AK mags are usually cheaper, however then you have to deal with the fact that some .223 AK mags work better than others. If you buy the SGM mags, you at least know that they are intended for use in the Saiga.

 

Keep in mind the Saiga-specific mags have a failure point in the built-in bullet guide that is used in the magazine - especially the Saiga Promag magazines, where the bullet guide is weak and tends to snap off of the mag. The SGM mags, I have not heard of many failures of the built-in guide. However one person here had a factory mag that was so well-used that the bullet guide began to wear down and led to feeding problems.

 

Honestly there isn't much of a point to getting a manual for the Saiga .223. It's just an AK chambered in .223 - everything you can learn anywhere else about AKs applies to it.

Edited September 5, 2013 by mancat

[jerry52 893]

Welcome! and you will love this Saiga 223. The SGM mags can be a little tight so some minor material sometimes needs to be removed. Other than that it is a rocking rifle.

You will find a lot of information an support here ,just post a question and it will be solved. Lot of Saiga experience here ,all are great people.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Mag interchange with popular mags is a great thing to think about... bullet guide may be needed, but a magwell is a positive step in usability no?

[Brian M1 50]

It basically comes down to this... you have few options:

A) use SGM mags. Perfect fit and work flawlessly. Designed to fit YOUR rifle.

B.) add bullet guide and use Circle 10 mags. There are 2 ways to go about this. You can either file out the interdiction tab, file the center support bar, and mil out the front trunion to fit them, or: fit each mag to fit. That means filing off about 1mm from front lip, and a few off the rear of feed lip area + the rear locking lug area. (or a combination of both, unique to your own rifle)

C) AR mag (stanag) adapter. This enables you to run standard nato mags. This mod usually entails milling the front trunion and using an adapter. These usually still allow you to use factory SGM type mags, but they will never fit like they used to. Pretty much a "temp" but permanent AR mag adapter. This will run you $ for fitting, and $ for adapter. PLUS you still have to buy AR mags.

This is why .223 is not popular with AK guys. No standard mags (com is x39 or 5.45). The mag is the lifeblood of any rifle. Without it (or easily obtained replacement) it is worthless.

It's a shame... 223 is an awesome caliber for ak. It combines easily available ammo, a flat trajectory bullet, long range, and accuracy potential, AND reliability all in one package.

I love my S223 but am tired of the "non standard" parts, thus it's getting replaced by a piston AR.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Brian M1

[nmusti 0]

Thanks all for the quick replies. I'm looking forward to getting my "new" saiga out on the range and reading more about it on these forums. I'm a little curious why the previous owner turned it over so quick, but hopefully their loss is my gain.

 

I guess at this point I'll start off by adding a few SGM mags; relatively inexpensive, made for the saiga and no mods needed; see how they perform, then go from there.

 

I'll follow up with a range report, but in the mean time feel free to offer up any advice/your 2 cents.

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

Post photos of the reciever stamps and we can date it for you. Serial number may not mean much for dating.

[Jaba1017 71]

I've run thousands of rounds through modified Beryl mags and I'm sure one or two FTF but I don't recall. The Beryl mags sit so high in the mag well that unless you are doing Sonny Puzikas rifle gymnastics a guide isn't essential. In fact the mags sit so high, that I can only run steel case in them because the brass cases get dinged by the bolt. Going with SMG is probably a smart bet. Plus gives you three compliance parts. I had to get US base plates for my Beryl mags in case the 922 government agents show up.

[nmusti 0]

Post photos of the reciever stamps and we can date it for you. Serial number may not mean much for dating.

I checked the reciever stamp and saw a "12" underneath it, so I'm still going to go with the assumption it's a 2012 model. thanks