40,000 Round AR Ammo Test: Steel vs Brass

[Yugopap4me 29]

Very interesting read on 10,000 round torture tests with American and Russian .223 ammo. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#erosion

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

This test proves my logic for only shooting brass cased ammo.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Yeah, I've only ever shot brass out of my AR. Gun was designed for it.

 

My .223 saiga I'll shoot everything out of. Shouldn't be a problem.

[Yugopap4me 29]

Serious question. Do you think the barrel life on a AK would be longer? If so why?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Forged barrels are stronger but leave stress that can affect accuracy and can never completely be relieved to my knowledge. In a AK you have to go past full auto to get to semi, the AR the other way around.

 

ARs in search of accuracy usually go with cut barrels.

 

A chrome lined barrel on a AK in semi under normal working conditions has a extremely long life.

[JESS1344 508]

GUYS,

YEAH, I READ THAT TEST A WHILE BACK, WISH THEY'D DO ONE FOR 7.62X39.

 

JESS1344

[SGL 530]

In a AK you have to go past full auto to get to semi, the AR the other way around.

 

 

I remember hearing or reading somewhere (maybe Fuller) that the selector was set up in this fashion on the AK so that a quick gross movement would bring the rifle to semi-auto, where it took a smaller more deliberate adjustment to put it in full auto. I'm no authority here, just regurgitating info found online, so take that for what it's worth.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

the pics that floated up in a thread about a type 1 recently showed a much heavier wear mark between safe and full.

 

But without getting inside the head of the inventor, I can't prove theory wrong.

[mancat 2,368]

just keep in mind the sort of heat stresses that are involved to shoot ten thousand rounds in several hours

 

the AR was also designed for steel-cased ammunition, which was tested and approved by the Army in the 70s - simply never put into production.

 

it isn't the steel cass that can cause additional wear. it's the bimetal bullet. some of the cheesier Russian ammo has a very thin copper jacket that can shed and make bare steel contact. ever shot Tula and had sparks come out of the muzzle? that.

 

you can find the eval papers in the web. don't want to do it on my phone right now, sorry.

Edited September 3, 2013 by mancat

[Nailbomb 10,221]

The steel cases only account for extractor wear.

[pyzik 597]

The steel cases only account for extractor wear.

And chamber.

 

I came away from that article about the same way I went into it.

Brass is better but steel is cheap. I'll shoot 10k rounds out of each rifle (Saiga & AR) in about 10 years. Seriously. I shoot handguns way more.

 

So between the savings of steel over brass and the length of time it'll take to wear out a barrel makes it a non-issue for me.

 

Lately I've been able to get PMC Bronze for the price of Wolf so that's what I've been going with.

[jerry52 893]

They did not clean the rifles and they are AR's not AK's , you can damage a motor if you race it non stop as well. I was surprised at how few steel ammo failures there was.

Good read , Thank for the post.

[XD45 7,124]

Very interesting read. No surprises.

 

40,000 Round Ammo Test

 

 

[Yugopap4me 29]

Dupe of my post last week. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90193-223-torture-tests-with-american-and-russian-ammo/

Edited September 9, 2013 by Yugopap4me

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Posts merged... Not sure if this worked the way I wanted...

[MT Predator 2,294]

the pics that floated up in a thread about a type 1 recently showed a much heavier wear mark between safe and full.

 

But without getting inside the head of the inventor, I can't prove theory wrong.

I know Soviet Doctrine had troops firing on auto. Even Soviet Paratroopers were trained to fire on auto under canopy while descending on the battlefield.

They did not clean the rifles and they are AR's not AK's , you can damage a motor if you race it non stop as well. I was surprised at how few steel ammo failures there was.

Good read , Thank for the post.

As long as you keep an AR lubed, you can run them dirty.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I like my ARs wet

[MT Predator 2,294]

I like my ARs wet:greedy:

They are like women, they run better wet.

[XD45 7,124]

This test exactly matches my experience. My bushy runs flawless with brass. Doesn't like steel.

 

Except... Mine runs great with brass plated steel (golden bear).

[Sim_Player 1,939]

It sounds like friction is the culprit.

 

When pushed against steel, brass "gives". Steel vs. steel equals more friction and heat. That would account for alot of the problems.

 

What about (copper-wash)steel ammo vs. a chrome barrel?

 

As long as the surplus steel bullets don't effect the accuracy, of my 5.45s, for about 5,000 rnds each, I'll be happy.

 

Rebarrel vs cheap ammo....?

 

Steel bullets with a "soft metal shell" make perfect sense, econonically.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Sim_Player

[cguiro 29]

I shoot both steel and brass out of my AR's. I dont disagree with steel shortening the life of the barrel... but from a money stand point 350 a case of brass cased 556/223 on average and 250 on steel cased ammo, in the time that it would take for the steel cased to completely destroy my barrel.I saved enough money to buy a replacement barrel for both my ars, and still have cash for another case left over or whatever else. Just saying.

[Arik 565]

I have yet to have a gun that doesnt like steel. I dunno if its just my luck or what but all the guns Ive ever had they all ran 100% with steel. Rem700, AKs, DD & Colt AR, Glocks, 1911s, P08 Luger....all were fine.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

On the Subject of why the AK goes Safe-Auto-Semi.

 

It's more of a "that's how the safety works" and less of a design intention.

 

To get Safe-Semi-Auto, you'd have to change the entire mechanic behind the safety and Auto-Sear operation.

[JESS1344 508]

 

the pics that floated up in a thread about a type 1 recently showed a much heavier wear mark between safe and full.

 

But without getting inside the head of the inventor, I can't prove theory wrong.

I know Soviet Doctrine had troops firing on auto. Even Soviet Paratroopers were trained to fire on auto under canopy while descending on the battlefield.

They did not clean the rifles and they are AR's not AK's , you can damage a motor if you race it non stop as well. I was surprised at how few steel ammo failures there was.

Good read , Thank for the post.

As long as you keep an AR lubed, you can run them dirty.

 

MT,

THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY UNDERSTANDING, IT'S A REFLECTION OF THEIR COMBAT MIND-SET.

 

GIVEN THE SOMEWHAT AWKWARDNESS OF THE MANIPULATION OF THE AK'S SELECTOR, THEY DEFAULT TO FULL AUTO FIRST; THERE'LL ALWAYS BE TIME TO GO SEMI IF THE SITUATION WARRANTS.

 

THEY WANT THE MAX VOLUME OF FIRE GOING DOWNRANGE NOW, WHEN/IF SHTF.

 

I THINK IT'S ALSO A CONTINUATION OF THEIR MINDSET FROM THEIR PPSH-41 AND PPS-43, NEITHER OF WHICH, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, HAD A SEMI SETTING.

 

JESS1344

[XD45 7,124]

No open bolt sub gun I am aware of has a semi setting.

[StrikeHardGear 16]

This test exactly matches my experience. My bushy runs flawless with brass. Doesn't like steel.

 

Except... Mine runs great with brass plated steel (golden bear).

I have a bushmaster that runs both equally well. Being a left handed shooter I've found the steel casings eject a little later than the brass and grazes my right cheek leaving a dirty smudge. I prefer to use brass but needed to know that steel will work if needed.