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there are exceptions to the BERRY AMENDMENT, for those that don't what the BERRY AMENDMENT is, which I suspect is like 99.9  percent of the members here, the link below will tell you, and if you go to number 4, it spells out the exceptions to the amendment

 

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/cpic/ic/berry_amendment_faq.html

Edited by Matthew Hopkins
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I know how you feel. It just seems wrong.

 

Maybe China could build our Nuclear Fast Attack Subs a bit cheaper? We get cheap subs, they get our tech, it's a win-win! Nevermind, they probably already hacked our blueprints...

 

It's become a very strange world, in my brief 41 years..

Edited by Sim_Player
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Hey, just like your weapons, low bidder wins.  Shit, they are uniform items and the Military specs them out.  If they are shitty, damn straight, call them out!  Too bad you cannot call them out on your preferred weapon system and get that shit straight.

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To add to this thread, liberty-r-death, do you know how many Dominicans are serving in the USAF today?  I think that more than covers any purchases made from them rather China or Haji Land.  Get your knickers untwisted.  Put the damn ABU on and press on.

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Made in the US is all about pride, not necessarily about good craftsmanship, sad to say.

 

Enjoy your Carribean uniform. Someone must have heard that you looked good in "floral". :)

 

I think I remember seeing "Made in Honduras" on one article of my uniform 15 years ago.

 

Soon, we'll be making uniforms for the Russian's and Chinese and they will be making our guns or vise versa.

Edited by Sim_Player
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I've never understood how ANY militarily-used object could be allowed to be made outside this country, from scratch.  Its ridiculous.  If any country supplies any part, if (and when, given Mao's record) we go to war with them, we no longer have our supplies.

 

Its just f-in ridiculously moronic, but what do you expect from our government, and its magnified stupidity under Mao.

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Am I tripping or did you buy a mil spec uniform out of your own pocket money? I would assume it was not issued. I have yet to see an issued uniform without NSN numbers on it and commercial branded logo tags.

 

With all due respect, I have to call bullshit on your new uniform. You purchased it at a store, not issued to you on base.

 

ALL issued ACU will be 50 cotton 50 nylon.

 

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/usa-contracts-for-new-army-combat-uniforms-in-acupat-camo-03024/#more

Edited by Stryker0946
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Made in the US is all about pride, not necessarily about good craftsmanship, sad to say.

 

Enjoy your Carribean uniform. Someone must have heard that you looked good in "floral". smile.png

 

I think I remember seeing "Made in Honduras" on one article of my uniform 15 years ago.

 

Soon, we'll be making uniforms for the Russian's and Chinese and they will be making our guns or vise versa.

Also about national security.

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Am I tripping or did you buy a mil spec uniform out of your own pocket money? I would assume it was not issued. I have yet to see an issued uniform without NSN numbers on it and commercial branded logo tags.

 

With all due respect, I have to call bullshit on your new uniform. You purchased it at a store, not issued to you on base.

 

ALL issued ACU will be 50 cotton 50 nylon.

 

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/usa-contracts-for-new-army-combat-uniforms-in-acupat-camo-03024/#more

Issued by supply and not store bought. Air force uses ABU not Army ACU. Firefighters have to have 100% cotton NFPA approved labeling. All of my old uniforms are Lion Apparel made in the USA. I can post pics of the old labels tomorrow. I asked other guys today to check labels. All uniforms picked up in the last month are Domincan Republic made.
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I know how you feel. It just seems wrong.

Maybe China could build our Nuclear Fast Attack Subs a bit cheaper? We get cheap subs, they get our tech, it's a win-win!

They probably already got our tech.

 

Fixed it for you.  You can thank Blowjob Billy for that one.

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Some years back I worked for a corporation known as Wolverine World Wide, Inc. located in Rockford, MI just north of Grand Rapids, MI.  I was their HR Director for 10 years. Wolverine manufactures and imports shoes and boots under numerous trade names including Merrell shoes, Hush Puppies, CAT and the Wolverine brand.  Wolverine is a DOD contractor for military issue combat boots.  Even though boots could have been manufactured and sourced to military specs overseas in the Dominican Republic, China or Vietnam, they were manufactured in the US to comply with DOD requirements so that we were not dependent on any foreign nation or government as concerned national security and defense.  As a result Uncle Sam incurred greater cost but had control.  Now, seven to ten years later it makes me wonder if the policy has changed to reduce costs by sacrificing control of critical military gear.  I guess I would not be surprised to find out we have given that away too.  Sometimes it seems like we are our own worst enemy.

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I met with my Fire Chief over the issue yesterday, and we did some digging into it. He was not very happy to know the new uniforms are foreign and being an E9 he carries some weight.

 

Learned a couple of things yesterday that I realize I already knew, but had forgotten over the years. The Air Force has adopted NFPA standards for fire protection. When you adopt NFPA it's all or nothing.

 

NFPA 1975 requires firefighter duty uniforms to be no less than 51% cotton, preferably 100% cotton. The uniform must have NFPA 1975, and UL listed, compliance tags. In the event a firefighter should get burned in uniform the theory is that that a poly/nylon uniform would melt to the skin making medical treatment more difficult. Truth is if we get burned in our turn out gear badly enough to burn the uniform under it we are probably dead so it's a mute point.

 

Here is what I was told about the NSN. Air Force Fire Protection was the only military entity at the time that required these uniforms. So, Lion Apprarel was contracted to make them. These have NSN on the tag. These uniforms have never been stocked for regular Air Force.

 

From what the Chief found the uniforms from the Dominican started showing up a couple of years ago, and a memo went out from some General that these were not contracted and not autorized for purchase by base suppply. A do not purchase general order is in place.

 

That led us to follow crumbs with base supply. Apparently they got a switcharoo. The contract vendor substituted these uniforms at a lower price because they did not have enough Lion Apparel uniforms to fill the order, and claims it was an honest mistake.

 

Long story short, lack of attention to detail.

 

Here is a photo of the tag in one of the Lion Apparel blouses.

post-33094-0-57658000-1379688803_thumb.jpg

Edited by liberty -r- death
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It may be that the cotton requirement for the USAF comes from experience with synthetics and fires back in Nam. 

 

Most AF casualties in Nam were pilots and fire was always a factor, of course they didnt wear the heavy outer protection you guys would. I know from guys that worked the morgue the flight suits would pretty much melt and make a huge mess. Just word of mouth as never saw any studies.

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NFPA requires cotton because it does have a rating against burning. Poly blends melt when exposed to heat and therefore have no falmmability resistant rating. It is very common to see firefighters in woodland situations in jeans and the woodland coat with heavy boots. In unlaid areas of the country where budgets are limited and volunteers are the primary source of fire extinguishment jeans are even more common and can even be seen in structural firefoghting such as room and content fires. I have worked as a volunteer and career/DOD firefighter (always structural) and we tested jeans against nomex III pants in coltrolled situations and the difference in protection in negligible.

 

In any woodland scenarion i would much prefer jeans to bunker pants, even with the liner removed. The comfort of a breathable material in a hot environment is worth its weight in gold.

 

To comment on the US made items post, it cost $3 per t-shirt more for us to have american made department shirts than those made in china. When you are purchasing a thousand shirts that cost adds up. Convincing higher up (bean counters) of that cost when you need a new monitor or pitot kit which would be covered by the savings from getting shorts from over seas the choice they make is obvious.

 

When it is cheaper to buy materials, pay a worker, operate a factory, ship your product to here, pay all the importation fees, and still have room for a profit at the origin and the importer than it is to make the same thing here and mail it somewhere is astounding. What makes it worse is that there is constantly an outcry for "more money" at the bottom which drives costs up amd keeps the vicious cycle going.

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