movinon2y 1 Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Great forum here!! I'm trying to determine who is importing these things and in what configuration I can or cannot legally buy as a consumer (I let the FFL go years ago) Thanks, 101 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Great forum here!!I'm trying to determine who is importing these things and in what configuration I can or cannot legally buy as a consumer (I let the FFL go years ago) Thanks, 101 Allegedly RAAC is but none have reached this shore despite months of waiting. http://www.raacfirearms.com/ Edit: I stand corrected. I just found this thread that asserts they have arrived and should be in dealers hands by mid January of 2006. However, I'm a skeptic and will only believe it when I hear from forum members they are receiving their pre-orders. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=9065 Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
movinon2y 1 Posted December 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Ok, that sounds positive, is there a recommended dealer(s)? Great forum here!! I'm trying to determine who is importing these things and in what configuration I can or cannot legally buy as a consumer (I let the FFL go years ago) Thanks, 101 Allegedly RAAC is but none have reached this shore despite months of waiting. http://www.raacfirearms.com/ Edit: I stand corrected. I just found this thread that asserts they have arrived and should be in dealers hands by mid January of 2006. However, I'm a skeptic and will only believe it when I hear from forum members they are receiving their pre-orders. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=9065 Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 When I see the Saiga shotguns offered in Shotgun News or in the gun department at Dunham's I'll believe that Saigas are being imported again. I don't know why EAA stopped importing the Saiga shotguns and rifles but they sure lost a lot of sales. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 When I see the Saiga shotguns offered in Shotgun News or in the gun department at Dunham's I'll believe that Saigas are being imported again. I don't know why EAA stopped importing the Saiga shotguns and rifles but they sure lost a lot of sales. Because the Russians screwed them over. 1) The Russians do NOT understand the American market (Robinson also has had the same problem, but some of that may be issues on his end). 2)A The Russians thought that EAA should be selling more than they were. RAAC said they could sell more, but now the Russians have handed them a shit sandwich by upping the price on everything which will make it harder for RAAC to make those numbers since people were used to aseeing them blown out in CDNN for under $300. 2)B CDNN buys up lots of good from other dealers and agencies and sells them at a very deep discount, so all the people who got used to seeing them at that blow out price are going to be in for a bit of a shock when the real world price of the new ones is not the CDNN price, which was what EAA was buying them from the Russians for. 3)The Russians have probably sent RAAC a bunch of guns, or contracted them to sell a bunch of guns that people here in the states cant use or wont buy. For example, the 9X64 caliber. A Russian round that is not commercially available yet (that I can find anywhere) in the US. HTF is going to buy this gun? A hand full of people that reload their own, or can form their own brass maybe, but thats it. And when the sales numbers for that don't match the numbers the Russians have pulled out of their ass and gotten into their heads, they will get pissed at RAAC. They have done the same thing to Robinson a few times. He orders one thing, they send him screwed up quantities of guns less of what he did order, and more of what he only wanted a few of because that is what they have sitting around or that is what they think he should be selling. Or even worse, they send him stuff that is not even on the form 6 that he ask for. He sent it back to them and deducted the storage and shipping charges from what he owed them. That pissed them off, but they screwed up so tough shit for them. The recommended dealers are not on their web site, but the wholesalers are. Your dealer can get with one of them and order you one when they get here, or in some cases, you can order them directly form the wholesalers and have it transfered to your dealer (we are doing that, and I am sure others are as well). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Believe it or not... If the gun fund was here and I COULD GET a 9x64 caliber Saiga... I WOULD jump on it... IT would become a safe queen, if I needed to... Till ammo became available... Thats one of those things... I would just like "to have" not even so much "to use"... that may not make sense to some... but to me it does... kinda like back in the day... when you could buy a 70 daytona for like 7G's off the dealer lot... who woulda thunk it.. Or you coulda bought an Edsall for DIRT CHEAP when they flopped... I see it as one of those things... They call it SPECULATION... I would take the chance that just maybe someday it would be worth a LOT more than I paid for it... and if I got to shoot it in the meantime... thats just icing on the cake... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 If the gun fund was fat, I would be ALL OVER a 9X64! It would fit the hole that I wanted to fill with a .45-100 very nicely! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Well, when the gun fund gets there, give me a ring. I'll give you a great deal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Pvt Pyle, Thanks for the insight and straight scoop. It confirms my understanding that the Russians are still learning about how business is conducted in the West. Hopefully, things will work out even if there are some big lumps of coal in Santa's Saiga bag. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Well, when the gun fund gets there, give me a ring. I'll give you a great deal. Sounds like you HAVE THEM IN STOCK?!?!? I will be aquiring the gun fund in approximately 2-3 weeks. At that point...lets be ready to talk 9X64 Saiga... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 We were toying with getting one to see what it is all about. I will ask RAAC if they are coming on the first shipment next week and let you know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Where does the site show a 9.3x64 in the Saiga? I can only find a 9x53 in the Saiga 9. The 9.3x64 I think is available as the 9.3x64 Brenneke in the U.S. I have heard of a Tiger in that caliber but not here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Thats the one I was talking about, and I am sure it is the one PvtPyle is too... Chalk it up to just a mental fumble of the numbers... But yeah... THATS the one.... http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_9-02.htm :up: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 That's the one, I need a S30-06 and I WANT one of the 9-53r monsters! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 When I see the Saiga shotguns offered in Shotgun News or in the gun department at Dunham's I'll believe that Saigas are being imported again. I don't know why EAA stopped importing the Saiga shotguns and rifles but they sure lost a lot of sales. I second that!!! Exactly the reason I bought a Saiga 12 for $350.00 back in November. I figured A Saiga in the hand is worth two on the ship. Besides now I have a second one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hey, with the russians being incompetent, why doesnt someone set up an AK receiver bending factory in this country and start churning out saiga work-a-likes for comparable money? I dont think there is a single part of the AK design that is a mystery. Tony seems to make custom caliber AK rifles (458 socom for example), and the only catch is getting magazines, which would already exist for saiga caliber weapons. Or are the russians producing them at an impossibly low price point? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacticalResponse 0 Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 (edited) Hey, with the russians being incompetent, why doesnt someone set up an AK receiver bending factory in this country and start churning out saiga work-a-likes for comparable money? I dont think there is a single part of the AK design that is a mystery. Tony seems to make custom caliber AK rifles (458 socom for example), and the only catch is getting magazines, which would already exist for saiga caliber weapons. Or are the russians producing them at an impossibly low price point? There have been a number of companies making AK receivers both milled and stamped, plus plane flats that you can bend. The S 12 has that a Trunion which would cost a lot more to manufacturer. I believe that Izhmash considers the S 12 to have an RPK receiver. The standards for an RPK receiver are usually walls that are at least 1.5 miimeter thick with a trunion. The bolt, bolt carrier and piston could also be expensive to produce. The Receiver would have to be registered and the feds would want strict control and $money$ for that. It can be done, all it would take is Money! Actually I hope that someone does it. I know that we could build a better receiver here in the states. The trouble that Robinson Armament has gone through with Molot the manufacturer of the vepr. I can see how importers can become fed up with the way that the Russians do business. Edited January 3, 2006 by TacticalResponse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
striker754 0 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 No. Homemade receivers do not need to be registered(aka 4473). It could be picked up by an existing gun manufacturer easily. And don't believe that just because its US made that it will be better, have you seen some of the trash that some of these companies have put out? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacticalResponse 0 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 No. Homemade receivers do not need to be registered(aka 4473). It could be picked up by an existing gun manufacturer easily. And don't believe that just because its US made that it will be better, have you seen some of the trash that some of these companies have put out? I guess that there's some argument over law because I've been told that any type of firearms receiver made in the U.S. must be registered. Even those made at home. It all depends on how the BATFE interpets the law that matters. Have you noticed how AK flat sellers, people that sold tools and provided information on making them have for the most part disappeared since 922r? The Majority of the U.S. made AK receivers on the market? Not very good. The firing line makes an excellent milled one, but with the cost of it you'd think that it was made out of gold. I know for a fact that there are several companies working on coming out with an entirely U.S. made AK. $800-$1200 dollars each I'm guessing? I don't believe that most people will buy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 922r has been around for a long time, and will be around for a long time. I think the flat builders have dried up due to market saturation. Several people ask this question, or a question based on this at the SAR show to the ATF reps. Their interpetation was that a non-NFA firearm made at home only had to be registered if it was later sold and introduced into commerce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stimpsonjcat 0 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) yep, you can make your own with no registration necessary. ATF would prefer you mark them with unique markings (see avatar), but not required. If you make receivers FOR SALE of course you will need to give them serial #s and be registered as a manufacturer. Edited January 3, 2006 by stimpsonjcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacticalResponse 0 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 yep, you can make your own with no registration necessary. ATF would prefer you mark them with unique markings (see avatar), but not required. If you make receivers FOR SALE of course you will need to give them serial #s and be registered as a manufacturer. I've heard arguments both ways at ak-47.net. It seemed that while the discussion was going on for several month's that neither side could decide on the ultimate legality of the issue. With that unsuredness I decided not to take the risk in building one. If it is legal then making the flat would be a problem with the extra thickness of the receiver walls and the trunion. It would definitly be a project. Not really an at home project for most people. I would like to see a manufacturer produce one though so that we could have increased options as what we want to do with our S 12's. I have a tendenacy to overbuild, so I would increase the receiver wall thickness and double the strength of the trunion, But that's just me. I overbuild everything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
striker754 0 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 You don't have to register any gun. At least not here. Homemade weapons do NOT have to be "registered" 4473'd at an FFL. They only must if you SBR, etc. If you have any doubt of this, write a letter to ATF or just look at state laws. Private transfers in free states are not regulated. This would be in direct conflict with registering homemade weapons. If you decide to sell a homemade weapon, you are supposed to engrave the receiver with your information, caliber, etc etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacticalResponse 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) You don't have to register any gun. At least not here. Homemade weapons do NOT have to be "registered" 4473'd at an FFL. They only must if you SBR, etc. If you have any doubt of this, write a letter to ATF or just look at state laws. Private transfers in free states are not regulated. This would be in direct conflict with registering homemade weapons. If you decide to sell a homemade weapon, you are supposed to engrave the receiver with your information, caliber, etc etc As no one is going to begin making or selling S 12 flats, because there are not enough of them in the public to make it worth manufacturering them, it doesn't really matter to us whether or not it's legal or illegal. Edited January 4, 2006 by TacticalResponse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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