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Which autoloading .308?


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Poll: Which autoloading .308 rifle? (42 member(s) have cast votes)

Which autoloading .308 rifle?

  1. LWRC R.E.P.R. (7 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  2. PWS Mk2 mod 1 (1 votes [2.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.38%

  3. DSarms SA-58 (4 votes [9.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  4. Keltec RFB (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. DPMS LR-308 (4 votes [9.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  6. POF P308 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Sig-Sauer 716 Precision (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Saiga .308 conversion (12 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  9. Not listed here (please elaborate) (14 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

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#1 cheeseybacon

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:44 PM

I've been shopping around for an autoloading .308/7.62x51mm rifle for a while now and I thought I'd get some opinions before going any further. I'm looking for something at least 18" but no longer than 20" in barrel length, and preferably (but not necessarily) piston-driven. Also I want something that takes either standard SR-25 or FAL pattern magazines. Yes, that means I am NOT interested in the M1A or the Fn SCAR-17. Don't get me wrong, the SCAR-17 is definitely a sweet rifle, but I don't like the idea of paying $60+ per proprietary magazine or an additional $400+ on top of the already high cost of the rifle for an aftermarket lower receiver that will accept PMAGs.

 

At the moment, I am leaning the most heavily towards the PWS Mk2 mod 1. The new mod 1 is free-floated and has an adjustable gas system and a redesigned bolt carrier, which seems to be a major improvement over the the original mod 0 that it replaces. I like the AK-esque simplicity of the long-stroke gas system too. Of course my logic could be utterly flawed regarding this rifle, which is why I'm asking for everyone's $0.02.

 

What would you get, if you were out to dump some money on an autoloading .308?



#2 yakdung

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:51 PM

I like this one as well:

http://www.springfie....php?version=31


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#3 cheeseybacon

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:53 PM

I like this one as well:

http://www.springfie....php?version=31

 

I'm sure it is a nice rifle, but based on my past experiences, I don't think I want an M1A type rifle.



#4 GunFun

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:59 AM

I've  been babysitting Salt's REPR. It is very well made, but I can't see buying one. Way too much $$$ and it is so heavy, I would consider it a bench rest gun only.  I just don't see how it is 2.5x better than another AR10 variant. 

 

FN SCAR has a lot of appeal in the category if you have the scratch, but I don't have any personal experience with one.

 

 

Edit: 

 

REPR has very nice fAL style controls and gas system, and ambi bolt catch. I do like those, but not an for $2500 over a normal AR10.

However, it would make lots of sense as a supressor host with the 3 stage piston.


Edited by GunFun, 29 September 2013 - 05:49 PM.


#5 Corbin

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 07:26 AM

You neglected to mention what the rifle would primarily be used for. That makes a huge difference in selection.


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#6 SCHULTZE

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:20 AM

Are you wanting long range or a battle rifle???? I know this is a Saiga forum and I should say the Saiga 308 or Vepr 308 and they are very good guns but not my first choice for a 308 battle rifle. My first choice is the FAL it is "The right arm of the free world" the only reason the US never adopted it was because of springfield armory they were pushing the M14 because they were already tooled up for it because of the M1 Granad and could make more money selling them to the goverment and you know how the old boys club was back then. The FAL would be my first choice but the mags are pricey another good 308 you did not list if the PTR-91/G3/HK91 also a good gun with cheap mags the only down fall in this gun to me is if you get a quality build and it has the proper fluted chamber it messes up your brass for reloading. Hope this helps


Edited by SCHULTZE, 29 September 2013 - 09:22 AM.


#7 308saiga

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:36 PM

You neglected to mention what the rifle would primarily be used for. That makes a huge difference in selection.

 

 

Not only this, but no budget was mentioned either....  Big difference in price between Saigas and any other rifle listed.....


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#8 Long Shot

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:27 PM

As already stated, not knowing your primary use, well.....

I have an LR-308 and M-77/M90 Yugo 308

My DPMS with bull bbl is an absolute tack driver (with my home brewed loads) and truly a pleasure to shoot. It takes Pmags and so far has been 100% reliable with around 1500 pills down the pipe. YMMV.

The AK goes bang with every pull of the trigger. Granted I haven't spent any time developing a load for this rifle.

For me the big difference is, with the AR platform, pick your favorite vital organ and place 168 grains of hot lead into said organ.

With AK platform, it will eat anything and spit it out somewhere close to centre of mass. Certainly adequate accuracy for most situations.

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#9 cheeseybacon

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:32 PM

Oops, sorry for leaving out some info. I'd like to keep overall costs at or as far under $3,000 as possible when I finally do "pull the trigger". I have been saving for quite a while, but if necessary I will save a little longer if I have to.

 

Anyway, under normal, happy circumstances, the type of usage that this rifle will see will consist of accuracy shooting off a bench or prone position at ranges of 200-300 yards, so I'd like it to be decently accurate (somewhere between 1 to 1.5 MOA?). While it would mostly be used for target shooting, I don't want to buy something that is a dedicated, purpose-built target gun which may be extra finicky about ammo or demand frequent maintenance. Admittedly I baby all my weapons and clean and lube them after every single use, but I am willing to sacrafice some accuracy to know that that the rifle can be reliably employed in a standoff or hunting role while in a state of poor maintenance/neglect should we ever find ourselves in a dire SHTF/TEOTWAWKI type of scenario. I kinda want to have my cake and eat too, it seems. I don't know if or to what extent that is possible however.



#10 Nailbomb

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:02 PM

at a $3k you could build one hell of a .308 saiga...


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#11 cheeseybacon

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:34 AM

I thought about a really crazy Saiga .308 build, perhaps something along the lines of what was done on the Sons of Guns show. As time goes on though, I dunno, that idea gets less and less appealing as I consider everything that would likely be involved. I can do a conversion without a problem but I do not think I am not up to the task of adapting a new barrel and groan at the idea of getting a gunsmith (which all exist in an alternate temporal dimension) involved.

#12 Ak Monty

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:53 AM

If you got that much id build either a saiga or buy a smith and wesson 308 ar then buy a rem 700 for long range. For that much money you could buy both and put decent glass on both.

#13 macbeau

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:04 PM

For the money, an S-308 is hard to beat as an all around "utility" rifle.

 

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#14 Ak Monty

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:41 PM

Macbeau said it. I realized this and its my go to rifle. Easy to find ammo, more than capable of taking about any north American game at upwards of 200 yards with iron sights.

#15 GunFun

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:21 PM

at a $3k you could build one hell of a .308 saiga...

 

at $45K you could have one hell of a built up honda civic, but maybe if you want a sports car you want a sports car. 

 

That said, if what you want to do is shoot 1-300 M, any will do and the S308 is a good cheap option. 

 

It doesn't make sense to me to spend lots of money tricking out a saiga, but a cheap one makes lots of sense. If he wants a match rifle or a very long range plinker, it makes more sense to buy the gun he wants to end up with. 

 

With the others on the list in the price range, and the scarcity, would anyone still consider the RFB after the number of people who've had serious problems? Neat idea, but I'd be reluctant to buy one I hadn't got to test drive extensively.


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#16 Spacehog

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:18 PM

My vote would be a CMMG 308 Custom. The only issue is I do not think they make them anymore. At least they are not on their website. CDNN SPORTS had these a couple of years ago for $1395. They came pretty much set up for benchrest shooting. Magpul PRS stock (I know you either love 'em or hate 'em), 1:10 twist fluted bull barrel threaded 5/8x24, a very decent out of the box CMMG 2 stage trigger, and an aluminum free floated hand guard that allows you to strategically place rails where you need them. I have since replaced the trigger with a Timney single stage, but the gun is consistently under 1/2" MOA with 178 Amax hand loads over Varget or 175 MKs over IMR 4064. If you happen to find one used online or locally, you will be very happy.

My second choice would be a base DPMS LR308. At $899 in stock for the rifle and a $3K budget, you could have a great shooting accurate rifle, the trigger of your dreams, very nice glass, and ammo to spare. Just my 2 cents..
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#17 GunFun

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:26 AM

That sounds like an appealing setup. How much does it weigh?



#18 Spacehog

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:09 AM

Too much! About 15 lbs with a 4x12x Nikon and bipod, and empty 20 rd PMag. But...I bought it specifically to set up for bench rest and prone shooting. The bull barrel and Magpul PRS and a significant amount of weight. Not a bad thing for benchrest but I wouldn't want to lug the thing around as a battle rifle.

The top pic is mine, the bottom is a generic pic of the rifle out of the box:

Attached Files


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#19 GunFun

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:25 AM

Doesn't look like you added anything that wouldn't be pretty much expected for this type of rifle. Naked weight isn't very relevant for a rifle made to have a bipod and scope.


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#20 Spacehog

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:55 PM

Apart from the trigger and glass, I haven't added much. I don't even want rails anywhere they aren't necessary. The older I am getting the more of a minimalist, I am becoming. Heck, even the Chaos Titan XL has come off my S-12 and has been replaced with the OEM handguard which has been vented. I love the way it looks with the Titan, but I actually enjoy shooting it more with it stripped down lean and mean. I have been making the same lighter transition with most of the stuff I shoot on a regular basis. I must be getting weaker as I get older!
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#21 ShadowFire

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:28 PM

My "other" is my own Entreprise Arms FAL.  Any FAL made right should be ok.  A parts kit semi-auto FAL was build as a home job by a guy who was wanting to know what the platform would do.  The barrel was in good shape as a used barrel when he started.  He did no cleaning to it what so ever, only oiled it and only used oil afterward to attempt to clear up any jams.  He named it Ole Dirty and you can find the information on another forum.  His round count last was heard was about 16,000 rounds.  The rifle keeps going and at some points looks dirty as hell.  Accuracy was good, piston return spring was shot, still kept going, the gas piston plug was seized to the gas block.


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#22 HOG76

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:57 PM

JG Sales has the Yugo M77 for $499.99


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#23 Spacehog

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 06:13 PM

My "other" is my own Entreprise Arms FAL.  Any FAL made right should be ok.  A parts kit semi-auto FAL was build as a home job by a guy who was wanting to know what the platform would do.  The barrel was in good shape as a used barrel when he started.  He did no cleaning to it what so ever, only oiled it and only used oil afterward to attempt to clear up any jams.  He named it Ole Dirty and you can find the information on another forum.  His round count last was heard was about 16,000 rounds.  The rifle keeps going and at some points looks dirty as hell.  Accuracy was good, piston return spring was shot, still kept going, the gas piston plug was seized to the gas block.


A quality FAL build is on my short list. The FN-FAL is the first battle rifle I lusted after when I couldn't even afford a Saturday night special. .308/7.62x51 is rapidly becoming my favorite caliber. The FAL is one platform I do not have it in but want. The one I shot was based on an original parts kit and was a pleasure to shoot.

JG Sales has the Yugo M77 for $499.99


I have been fighting the temptation!

#24 csspecs

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:41 PM

JG Sales has the Yugo M77 for $499.99

 

Crap, just bought one locally for $650... They do tend to increase in price once magazines become available. Just saying.


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#25 ShadowFire

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:20 PM

 

My "other" is my own Entreprise Arms FAL.  Any FAL made right should be ok.  A parts kit semi-auto FAL was build as a home job by a guy who was wanting to know what the platform would do.  The barrel was in good shape as a used barrel when he started.  He did no cleaning to it what so ever, only oiled it and only used oil afterward to attempt to clear up any jams.  He named it Ole Dirty and you can find the information on another forum.  His round count last was heard was about 16,000 rounds.  The rifle keeps going and at some points looks dirty as hell.  Accuracy was good, piston return spring was shot, still kept going, the gas piston plug was seized to the gas block.


A quality FAL build is on my short list. The FN-FAL is the first battle rifle I lusted after when I couldn't even afford a Saturday night special. .308/7.62x51 is rapidly becoming my favorite caliber. The FAL is one platform I do not have it in but want. The one I shot was based on an original parts kit and was a pleasure to shoot.

JG Sales has the Yugo M77 for $499.99


I have been fighting the temptation!

 

 

 

Fight it, save up for the FAL.  lol  :D

 

It's been great with the FAL.  I've had to tune the ejector but it comes with the territory.  The rest of it?  Not a thing in the world wrong with it.

 

Previously I had wanted an FAL since I had seen one on the cover of a Soldiers of Fortune Magazine, it was Belgian and in an awesome condition, looked brand new.

 

Now I'm customizing it.  Got a few things on back order at the moment.


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#26 GunFun

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:09 AM

 

JG Sales has the Yugo M77 for $499.99

 

Crap, just bought one locally for $650... They do tend to increase in price once magazines become available. Just saying.

 

 

 

Wait a year or two, and you can probably clear $400 profit on it.


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#27 AA re-cvrd

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:37 PM

I like my S-308, I have about $700 in it with the conversion, glass, and various Mags. It's "BLAST" to shoot.

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#28 sccritterkiller

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 02:32 PM

I built a AR 10 from a dmps lower and upper..free floated 16" barrel with troy rail...added a geissele ssa trigger and vltor six position stock. Its light for a 308 and very accurate out to 300 yds...It could proabably reach out farther if I had glass on it..running a eotech now. I choose that platform because when I built it 5 years ago or so SR 25 surplus mags were cheap and plentiful and there was a wider choice of other parts. The pmag option is nice too.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell all my hunting and fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it.

#29 Ak Monty

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:57 AM

Light and ar10 dont go together. Haha. Whats it weigh?

#30 sccritterkiller

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 07:55 AM

Around 9.5# My goal for the build was under 10# without mag...I have noticed they have been getting lighter in the last couple years. I picked up a Miad FDE grip for it but I forget to get a wedge...so it's still in the drawer. This was my original pig gun until I discovered the 6.8 round.

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Edited by sccritterkiller, 15 December 2013 - 08:00 AM.

My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell all my hunting and fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it.




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