CFOofEVIL 8 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 No, not the badass actor Rip-Torn! Rather, I seem to have developed an interesting issue with my Saiga .223. It's converted, and I'm the third owner (that I know of). I've owned it for around three years now - no clue how long the previous owners had it, or the round count they had on it. I converted it myself and I've put around 1,500 through in in my ownership of it, which is only an estimation. It's always ran like a champ for me with no issues. Recently though, I've encounter two issues that have me concerned. Most of the time I shoot steel case through it (Monarch .223 Steel, 55gr to be exact), because it's cheap as heck and the gun eats it like candy. I have put quite a bit of old IMI brass cased 5.56 through it though over the years (think it was stamped as being made in the mid-late 90s) as well. Since the remaining IMI I had was getting old, I decided to cycle it out of my inventory completely. That is when the first failure occurred: The gun fired and ejected - only I looked down at the ejection port to see a case sticking out of it keeping the gun from going into battery. So I remove casing and realize it's actually only the top half of it - the base of the case is nowhere to be seen. I did manage to find the base on another trip to the range, and I have it pictured below. I thought "huh... never seen that before" and after checking the gun to make sure nothing bad was wrong with it, I went ahead and kept shooting with no further issue. Fast forward to today - I had some American Eagle AR .223 to run (which is brass cased), and it was looking pretty nasty when I opened the box with dirty looking cases and what not (almost like it was old ammo, which is not true as I only purchased it a few weeks back from a large retailer). Same thing happened, only this time the base of the case ejected, and the top portion of the case stayed in the chamber. This caused quite the interesting malfunction when it tried to load the next round into the still chambered half-a-casing. That is what you are looking at in the other picture, along with the base of the case that I was able to find. I should note this has only happened twice so far, but I find it rather worrisome. I depend on this gun - or want to depend on it. It's no safe queen by any stretch of the imagination - she's scratched up, dinged, got topical rust lightly here and there, and gets run dirty all the time. I haven't put it through any undue abuse, though. It's never given me any troubles before this, and it always eats steel cased ammo with no issues at all. So, any ideas? I kind of want to think there is something up with the chamber; like it's out of spec, or something. Perhaps the brass is expanding into a inappropriately sized space, and it is getting jammed in there pretty tight, which forces the case to rip at it's weakest point when the extractor tried to pull it out. This gun has always been overly enthusiastic about extraction/ejection: it dents the hell out of the case mouth, shoulder, and mid of the case in the process with both steel and brass, but to varying degrees. Upon further inspection, I also noticed some weird gouges on my bolt carrier, which I've attached pictures of. I can't say I've ever noticed them before, but I don't think they are supposed to be there . I also think the rails that the BC rides on are a little rough looking, but it doesn't feel rough when I hand cycle it. Everything else looks OK as far as I can tell - but I'll attach some other pictures of the interior of the receiver so you guys can give it a once over. Thanks for reading, and any advice you might offer! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CFOofEVIL 8 Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Another post for the "bonus" pics: First is a spot on the right hand side rail that looks and feels raised/rough where the knife is pointing. Rather hard to make out in the picture, unfortunately. Second is the rear trunnion, because I have no earthly clue what kind of wear is normal for a .223 in this area. Edited October 5, 2013 by CFOofEVIL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerry52 893 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 If it is old or reloaded brass this can happen ,don't sweat it . I would clean the chamber out to make sure there is nothing else going on which I highly doubt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CFOofEVIL 8 Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Yeah, in both cases it appeared that the brass was old or worn, so perhaps that is it. I'll pay extra attention to the chamber when I clean it tomorrow as well. Thanks! Edited October 5, 2013 by CFOofEVIL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Unless I its been loaded a few times id think the brass would be fine. Sometimes when you shoot steel coated the coating bakes in the chamber. Just clean the hell out of the chamber. Id bet that would take care of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 It isn't the coatings on steel. That's been disproven. What happens is that the steel doesn't stretch and seal the chamber as much so powder residue leaks by and gets in the chamber which makes it grippy. The first few brass rounds stick after switching from a bunch of steel to brass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerry52 893 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Could be that also, I have only seen it in reloads but Gun Fun may be on to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 That happens when you have excesive headspace. Tony 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jaba1017 71 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 My 223 shreds brass due to mag height. Feeds steel fine. The 10 round stock mag feeds brass fine. Mod beryl mags sit higher bolt catches top of second round as it stripped first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Jaba, Most likely you have a sharp edge on your bolt. The downward tab that strips the rounds out of the magazine is too sharp on the front edge. So as it picks up the first round, the second round is being scraped by that sharp edge and it will try to draw the #2 round forward as it's chambering the top round. You're catching the number 2 round in the middle of the body and dragging it forward. There is no way the bolt could be BEHIND both the #1 and #2 case heads. Taking that sharp edge off should fix the problem. Tony 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Yep I also lightly chamfered the two bottom corners of the stripping lug on the bolt. It was VERY sharp and would bite brass cases Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CFOofEVIL 8 Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Thanks for the continued input guys. I'm still working on really making sure the chamber is clean - I generally just run a boresnake through it and call it a day, so, I'll need to get an appropriate chamber brush to do that. Tony: I'll pick up some headspace gauges to check to see if it's good or not. I think this is something I'd feel more comfortable having a pro fix for me if it's off though. Can headspace change over time? It's so strange to me that it used to have no issues with tearing the brass like this. I'll keep my fingers crossed! Time to buy more brass ammo too and see if the cleaning helps with it. Also, FWIW, I've never had any feeding issues with it. I have a bullet guide installed and run Tapco Galils, Steel Galils, Orlite Galils, and a Surefire. When running brass I have noticed that the bottom of the bolt looks like a lot of brass has rubbed off on it though, so I hear you about the height of the mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerry52 893 Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Jaba, Most likely you have a sharp edge on your bolt. The downward tab that strips the rounds out of the magazine is too sharp on the front edge. So as it picks up the first round, the second round is being scraped by that sharp edge and it will try to draw the #2 round forward as it's chambering the top round. You're catching the number 2 round in the middle of the body and dragging it forward. There is no way the bolt could be BEHIND both the #1 and #2 case heads. Taking that sharp edge off should fix the problem. Tony Tony with a gun that used you would think that head space would not be a problem , but I don't work on as many AKs as you do. I have never seen it in an older gun not saying it cant happen. What do you think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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