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My experience with Saiga rifles so far has been not great:

 

I purchased two Saiga rifles, a 223, and a 308, from a guy on arms was. The 223 bolt was unable to ratchet back. The seller incredibly paid for shipping to and from back and replaced it. It turned out from what he said that the manufacturer had put a wrong part in which was hitting the magazine.

 

I am not a overly gun-technical guys so I cannot tell you exactly what was wrong, nor with the other rifles mentioned herein.

The 223 that was sent as replacement seems to be firing fine.

 

Then I found out that the 308 was jamming and ripping the bullets apart. Once again the same guy stunningly paid for all shipping and replaced the rifle.

 

The 308 sent as replacement that I currently have does not jam as much, but, I do not consider it to be a reliable weapon as it still jams I would say approximately 1 out of 10 shots. In a life-threatening situation that is unacceptable. A gun should fire and sure-fire in my opinion. In a life-threatening situation, one cannot say: "Oh sorry guys, have a problem here, let me fix it, and I get back with you; timeout." Yeah right.

 

So far that's three Saiga guns that in one way or the other have not work correctly to one degree or another. All three of these rifles mentioned above were brand-new.

 

I then purchased a 7.62×39 Saiga rifle from a gun store in Texas online that was manufactured by EAA, or modified by them. This was also a brand-new rifle. This rifle also has major jamming issues. Once again unbelievably this guy is also willing to take the gun back, and this time not exchange it, but refund me everything, including all shipping involved.

 

I am currently seeking a replacement 7.62 x 39 of which I have an ad running in the seeking to buy in this forum, preferably with wood, but, it cannot have the pistol grip or a threaded muzzle, a muzzle flash, etc., as once again we can have only one military aspect and the detachable magazine covers that, and that's it. If anybody has one that fits these needs please send me a message.

Thankfully the prices of these Saiga 7.62×39 rifles have dropped and I see online they are going for around $500 now, which is not so bad, relatively speaking to today's environment. I am aware that they used to be much cheaper, but, at least does come down to where it was.

 

With all now four rifles that have had major jamming, ripping bullets apart, etc., issues, many different types of ammunition have been tried, and many different types of magazines-meaning different manufacturers-and all proper ammunition and magazines have been used. There is been diligent trying to fix the issues by first and foremost making sure the ammunition and magazines were removed as possible suspects. Please believe me so we avoid this issue which is a non-issue.

 

I live in New York State and I purchased these after the New York Safe Act was passed. We are allowed only one military aspect on a rifle. This led me to very few choices other than a shotgun, which already had, I wanted more than a shotgun, and I wanted at least one gun with a detachable magazine, which is a military aspect, which pretty much left very few rifles that were "highly proficient" in a SHTF type situation, self-defense, and the like.

 

I did come to this forum and other forums alike and found overall excellent reviews of the Saiga rifles and the AK-47 rifles, and such. I could not buy the AK 47 rifles because of my state laws, nor can I convert my rifles due to the same laws.

 

I also looked at the Benelli 223, the Remington 308, and the M1 Garand. The Benelli I found too many reviews questioning its reliability. The Remington was a 308 which I find to be too large an impact load for a primary self-defense weapon. And the M1 is just too expensive for my budget. Plus it also is a 308 and I wanted something smaller in the lines of 223 or 7.62. And I find the shotgun to have too much of a recoil to be used a primary self-defense weapon.

 

I am not posting this for purposes of seeking solutions to the problems. I am posting this because reasonably I am utterly perplexed as to what is going on...

 

Is this normal for these rifles to do this type of jamming and such in general? Are these rifles intended generally for people who are very handy and made in such a way that they need to be constantly tinkered with, or, it is assumed that they are going to have problems and not be generally assumed to not fire correctly, initially at least? Can it be just a string of nothing but bad luck? It would seem almost impossible that almost every one of these rifles I've had has had major issues.

 

I am not knocking these rifles. I am not in any way intending to offend anybody for own these rifles. I still believe in them, and want to and somehow some way believe I will get it all straightened out.

 

The time money and energy expenditure to straight all us out has been tremendous. At all to that all of the stress and frustration and such.

 

I am venting. I'm also asking for input opinions insight etc. from you experienced people as to why you think this is going on.

It bears repetition: I've had many expert gun friends who know what they're doing who helped during the entire process with all these rifles and many types of magazines, all correct, and many types of ammunition, all correct, were used with all the above mentioned rifles with troubles. So please steer away from that, which is understandable, but, bullets and magazines were not the problems 100% for sure. It was the rifles.

 

I have a friend who is a gun expert in California who has AR-15's and he fires them and they fire, for my understand pretty much every time. That's it. He's telling me to get out of these rifles and get into the 15's, but, again, because of the laws in New York State, I am handcuffed. I would rather stick with these rifles as I'm way down the road and it's far to go back, I still like them, I just want all of this to stop and have reliable rifles. I am also not handy at all so I cannot tinker with these rifles; I need rifles were in their loaded their fired and they fire, generally, within reason, taking into account that yes things do happen, but not to this level. I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

Your feedback input opinions insights and such would be massively appreciated.

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Your having a string of bad luck. Of the saiga I have fired unconverted (excluding shotguns) 90% of them had no functioning issues.

Not questioning yours friends expertise, but if you have no expertise how do you know how expert they are?

Secondly just because you can buy an AR and parts that drop in, doesn't mean you can trouble shoot a weapon malfunction in another platform.

Sounds like the dealer your working with is a stand up guy and wants to retain your business and his reputation. You should seek to purchase from him.

My question is were you using saiga factory magazines?

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many people "know" guns but may not know the particulars of the AK system, or what things to look for when things go wrong.

 

 

the saiga rifles should work 100% out of the box, but there's no telling what can go wrong when people start to modify them. people do very stupid things - sometimes as stupid as grinding off locking lugs because they thought they were unnecessary. seriously.

 

i would hang onto the rifles and do your best to learn about the mechanics of their operation. these rifles are a very easy intro to firearm mechanics, and what things do go wrong, you should be able to learn how to repair as you go along.

 

the best way to get help online with these is to, most importantly, take a photo of every failure. do not remove the magazine, and try to remove the dust cover to get the clearest picture of the failure within the receiver, showing several different angles.

 

 

AKs are very reliable firearms, but all machines can fail. yours may have been assembled incorrectly - things like incorrectly drilled gas ports have happened, but are unlikely. your magazines may be faulty or damaged in some way. etc. etc.

 

 

the rate of failure on these guns is extremely low. have patience and stick around here, you will eventually figure out what's going on.

 

there are some NY members here who might be willing to help in person, as well.

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many people "know" guns but may not know the particulars of the AK system, or what things to look for when things go wrong.the saiga rifles should work 100% out of the box, but there's no telling what can go wrong when people start to modify them. people do very stupid things - sometimes as stupid as grinding off locking lugs because they thought they were unnecessary. seriously.i would hang onto the rifles and do your best to learn about the mechanics of their operation. these rifles are a very easy intro to firearm mechanics, and what things do go wrong, you should be able to learn how to repair as you go along.the best way to get help online with these is to, most importantly, take a photo of every failure. do not remove the magazine, and try to remove the dust cover to get the clearest picture of the failure within the receiver, showing several different angles.AKs are very reliable firearms, but all machines can fail. yours may have been assembled incorrectly - things like incorrectly drilled gas ports have happened, but are unlikely. your magazines may be faulty or damaged in some way. etc. etc.the rate of failure on these guns is extremely low. have patience and stick around here, you will eventually figure out what's going on.there are some NY members here who might be willing to help in person, as well.

I offered to help awhile ago, but he is 5 hours away. In the city IIRC. And a lawyer..... Too bad, too. I could use a little legal representation in trade.

Edited by Yeoldetool
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Maybe it is not WHAT you are buying, but WHERE you are buying it from?

 

That was a thought I had too... some dealers may just keep reselling returned problem guns until they don't come back.

They know a percentage of them just go home into a closet or under a bed and never get fired.

 

The other thing was mags as was mentioned.

 

Even unconverted Saiga's could benefit from a feed ramp that is part of conversion (my opinion).

Nothing in NY law forbids reliability improvements.

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Why? Because they were skull fucked before they could be shipped over to our country. Look at the bottom. See that piece of shit metal on your unconverted saiga? That's where the trigger group should have been. They moved the trigger group so you could shoot it with the (non evil feature) long gun stock. Most will work no problem with the dicked up trigger but a few will be problematic. Fix it with a few hundred rounds, a hammer, sand paper, drill, etc. Or you could convert it to it's intended original configuration and enjoy it a bunch more.

 

It's a Saiga and you need to build it up. If you want an out of the box shotgun that will kick ass right out of the box, buy a benelli. The saiga is like a hot rod. You took a basic car and tweaked it to your liking.

 

If you want your saiga to run like a sewing machine, send it to tac47 in texas and be done with it. You can do this by yourself but not as good as they can. Good luck and keep working on your gear!

Edited by Stryker0946
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Why? Because they were skull fucked before they could be shipped over to our country. Look at the bottom. See that piece of shit metal on your unconverted saiga? That's where the trigger group should have been. They moved the trigger group so you could shoot it with the (non evil feature) long gun stock. Most will work no problem with the dicked up trigger but a few will be problematic. Fix it with a few hundred rounds, a hammer, sand paper, drill, etc. Or you could convert it to it's intended original configuration and enjoy it a bunch more.

 

It's a Saiga and you need to build it up. If you want an out of the box shotgun that will kick ass right out of the box, buy a benelli. The saiga is like a hot rod. You took a basic car and tweaked it to your liking.

 

If you want your saiga to run like a sewing machine, send it to tac47 in texas and be done with it. You can do this by yourself but not as good as they can. Good luck and keep working on your gear!

Yes to all of this!

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Maybe the guns do not like being in New York.  Just saying,  or you really have run into some very bad luck.  Hang in there it will get better.

 

Funny and thank you

Your having a string of bad luck. Of the saiga I have fired unconverted (excluding shotguns) 90% of them had no functioning issues.

Not questioning yours friends expertise, but if you have no expertise how do you know how expert they are?

Secondly just because you can buy an AR and parts that drop in, doesn't mean you can trouble shoot a weapon malfunction in another platform.

Sounds like the dealer your working with is a stand up guy and wants to retain your business and his reputation. You should seek to purchase from him.

My question is were you using saiga factory magazines?

Pool: Had several people with deep experience look at all four bad rifles.

Def read deal dudes.

Also: Tried factory and non-factory mags: not the mags

Another good question is what ammo are you using?

Mostly Bear and Wolf. Also tried "regular" higher-level ammunition in all four non-functioning rifles. Also, mostly hollow point, but some FMJ as well, and even some green tip. My understanding was one of the benefit of these rifles was that the supposed to shoot pretty much anything?

Since polishing the bolts I have no problems out of any of mine but that has been pointed out many times

I am not handy enough to do things like this. Again was my understanding that these rifles essentially was most of the if not the amongst the most reliable in the world, and not need this type of tinkering out-of-the-box. All these rifles were brand-new-all four that are male functioning.

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Maybe it is not WHAT you are buying, but WHERE you are buying it from?

 

That was a thought I had too... some dealers may just keep reselling returned problem guns until they don't come back.

They know a percentage of them just go home into a closet or under a bed and never get fired.

 

The other thing was mags as was mentioned.

 

Even unconverted Saiga's could benefit from a feed ramp that is part of conversion (my opinion).

Nothing in NY law forbids reliability improvements.

 

what type or reliability improvements?

Maybe it is not WHAT you are buying, but WHERE you are buying it from?

All right our of box unopened?

Dealer and guy, (good military man), who bought new and resold

And both took back all four rifles or refunded so highly unlike they were scamming in first place.

 

Maybe it is not WHAT you are buying, but WHERE you are buying it from?

 

That was a thought I had too... some dealers may just keep reselling returned problem guns until they don't come back.

They know a percentage of them just go home into a closet or under a bed and never get fired.

 

The other thing was mags as was mentioned.

 

Even unconverted Saiga's could benefit from a feed ramp that is part of conversion (my opinion).

Nothing in NY law forbids reliability improvements.

 

Feed ramp? Do you mean a bullet guide?

Where would I get these?

How hard to install?

 

many people "know" guns but may not know the particulars of the AK system, or what things to look for when things go wrong.the saiga rifles should work 100% out of the box, but there's no telling what can go wrong when people start to modify them. people do very stupid things - sometimes as stupid as grinding off locking lugs because they thought they were unnecessary. seriously.i would hang onto the rifles and do your best to learn about the mechanics of their operation. these rifles are a very easy intro to firearm mechanics, and what things do go wrong, you should be able to learn how to repair as you go along.the best way to get help online with these is to, most importantly, take a photo of every failure. do not remove the magazine, and try to remove the dust cover to get the clearest picture of the failure within the receiver, showing several different angles.AKs are very reliable firearms, but all machines can fail. yours may have been assembled incorrectly - things like incorrectly drilled gas ports have happened, but are unlikely. your magazines may be faulty or damaged in some way. etc. etc.the rate of failure on these guns is extremely low. have patience and stick around here, you will eventually figure out what's going on.there are some NY members here who might be willing to help in person, as well.

I offered to help awhile ago, but he is 5 hours away. In the city IIRC. And a lawyer..... Too bad, too. I could use a little legal representation in trade.

 

Maybe misunderstanding...

I never said no, and I am open to exchange; I am a lawyer

We are just far. But that can be overcome.

The Ruger Mini-14 may be a viable option if you can't figure out the issues with the Saigas.

Recently looked at the Ruger Mini 7.62 x 39

Looks decent: opinions on it?

Cost twice as much: about $1000 as opposed to about $500 now for Saigas, or even less. But reliability may be life saving so if need to I will. 

 

Thing is I am loaded on Saiga/AK platform stuff and the change would be $$$

what mags ya runnin' on the 308? that 3rd lug and knock the snot outta the brass...

Factory and orhers

We pretty much concluded decisively not the mags.

many people "know" guns but may not know the particulars of the AK system, or what things to look for when things go wrong.

 

 

the saiga rifles should work 100% out of the box, but there's no telling what can go wrong when people start to modify them. people do very stupid things - sometimes as stupid as grinding off locking lugs because they thought they were unnecessary. seriously.

 

i would hang onto the rifles and do your best to learn about the mechanics of their operation. these rifles are a very easy intro to firearm mechanics, and what things do go wrong, you should be able to learn how to repair as you go along.

 

the best way to get help online with these is to, most importantly, take a photo of every failure. do not remove the magazine, and try to remove the dust cover to get the clearest picture of the failure within the receiver, showing several different angles.

 

 

AKs are very reliable firearms, but all machines can fail. yours may have been assembled incorrectly - things like incorrectly drilled gas ports have happened, but are unlikely. your magazines may be faulty or damaged in some way. etc. etc.

 

 

the rate of failure on these guns is extremely low. have patience and stick around here, you will eventually figure out what's going on.

 

there are some NY members here who might be willing to help in person, as well.

there are some NY members here who might be willing to help in person, as well.

I hope so; if so please PM me

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Sounds like magazine fit and angle. Has someone tinkered in your magwell? Even the sloppiest built Ak will feed if the mag is seated right. I have saigas in three calibers and can count the jams on one hand through thousands of rounds.

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Reading this again, you have four Saigas in different calibers that will not cycle properly. You tried different mags. You tried different ammo. And got no improvement. No offense, but you need to consider that maybe the problem is you and not the rifles. Disassemble each. Make sure the rifles are clean, lubed, inspect for unusual wear or damage, and re-assembled properly. Disassemble your stock mags, inspect, clean and reassemble those. Next you need to look at how youre shouldering and firing the rifle. Make sure you are doing that right. With 4 rifles malfunctioning with different mags and ammo something else is going on other than you got four bad rifles. You might have gotten 4 bad rifles, but it seems unlikely.

 

Oh, and post some pics of the rifle magwell, the mags in the rifle from the top and side view with the bolt carrier removed, and some picks of the ftf rounds if they have any marks, scrapes, dents, an such on them.

Edited by Jaba1017
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>>Feed ramp? Do you mean a bullet guide?

>>Where would I get these?

>>How hard to install?

 

 

Yes, bullet guide.

 

http://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=bullet+guide&Submit=

 

 

The Saiga rifles do not take AK mags in stock configuration, they need the bullet guide.

See the conversion resources around here for detailed info on that.

 

The bullet guide will also help compensate for any slop in the feed angle.

 

I agree with others that something very odd is going on to have four unreliable rifles out of the box.

 

Is the feed problem always on the first round?

 

Are you easing the bolt/charging handle forward manually?

(correct way is to pull back and let go, let it slam shut)

 

A bit of lube and break-in is normally all an AK platform rifle needs when new.

Edited by Spartacus
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Sounds like magazine fit and angle. Has someone tinkered in your magwell? Even the sloppiest built Ak will feed if the mag is seated right. I have saigas in three calibers and can count the jams on one hand through thousands of rounds.

It is for rifles that are similarly not shooting correctly and jamming so the answer would be no and they all were brand-new out-of-the-box

>>Feed ramp? Do you mean a bullet guide?

>>Where would I get these?

>>How hard to install?

 

 

Yes, bullet guide.

 

http://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=bullet+guide&Submit=

 

 

The Saiga rifles do not take AK mags in stock configuration, they need the bullet guide.

See the conversion resources around here for detailed info on that.

 

The bullet guide will also help compensate for any slop in the feed angle.

 

I agree with others that something very odd is going on to have four unreliable rifles out of the box.

 

Is the feed problem always on the first round?

 

Are you easing the bolt/charging handle forward manually?

(correct way is to pull back and let go, let it slam shut)

 

A bit of lube and break-in is normally all an AK platform rifle needs when new.

Are you saying that a bullet guide should ideally be put into Saiga rifles used with the magazine that comes with them from the factory?

Seriously man.. Get the guns to malfunction, leave the malfunction rounds in place, remove the dust cover, and take some photos to post here. If you do nothing else, it's a good way to get started.

If anymore jamming goes on I am going to do exactly that

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>>Are you saying that a bullet guide should ideally be put into Saiga rifles used with the magazine that comes with them from the factory?

 

In my opinion..... yes.

 

Click on the link I posted for the bullet guides at CSS. You'll see video links on how to do the install and also how to mod the stock Saiga

mags to be compatible with the bullet guide. Then you can use any compatible mag in the rifle.

 

I think there is something more going on here though.... four rifles all acting up for you?

 

You didn't answer the question on how you are using the charging handle.

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Failure to feed is often caused by the lack of a proper bullet guide.

 

I never fired either of my Saigas, before converting them, but they both run perfect after converting (including installing the bullet-guide).

 

The stock Saiga mags try to account for the lack of a guide by leaving metal on the front of the magazine, forcing the bullet to jump a pretty large gap into the chamber. If the magazine angle is off, it could cause problems.

 

Do you grip the magazine while firing? Sometimes this can cause problems too.

 

Lots of experience here in this forum.

 

I would trust my life to my Saigas.

 

My 7.62x39 had some minor factory issues but, not FTF.

Edited by Sim_Player
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Failure to feed is often caused by the lack of a proper bullet guide.

 

I never fired either of my Saigas, before converting them, but they both run perfect after converting (including installing the bullet-guide).

 

The stock Saiga mags try to account for the lack of a guide by leaving metal on the front of the magazine, forcing the bullet to jump a pretty large gap into the chamber. If the magazine angle is off, it could cause problems.

 

Do you grip the magazine while firing? Sometimes this can cause problems too.

 

Lots of experience here in this forum.

 

I would trust my life to my Saigas.

 

My 7.62x39 had some minor factory issues but, not FTF.

Now I am not gripping the magazines during firing. I also was among several other people who fired the weapons, before that malfunction, and everybody had them Jan.

 

Are you saying that all Saiga rifles should have a bullet guide put into them to make them fire better? I am in New York State, and we are not allowed to convert. Is putting a bullet guide in a Saiga rifle a good idea without a full conversion that I cannot do?

 

Or, can Saiga rifles fire reliably without a bullet guide?

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>>Are you saying that a bullet guide should ideally be put into Saiga rifles used with the magazine that comes with them from the factory?

 

In my opinion..... yes.

 

Click on the link I posted for the bullet guides at CSS. You'll see video links on how to do the install and also how to mod the stock Saiga

mags to be compatible with the bullet guide. Then you can use any compatible mag in the rifle.

 

I think there is something more going on here though.... four rifles all acting up for you?

 

You didn't answer the question on how you are using the charging handle.

You are saying to modify the magazines if a bullet guide is put in. Does that mean that all of the many factory magazines I have all of the different caliber Saiga rifles I have need to be modified if I put bullet guides and all of these Saiga rifles?

 

If that be the case please bear in mind that I am not mechanically oriented and I will have to have somebody else do that. As well, in a a SHTF situation, I'm not sure uncomfortable with may be having to forage for magazines that need to be modified as I would rather that any compatible non-modified magazine can be inserted and used quickly.

 

As far as charging the rifle, again, I am not the only one who fired the rifles and some of the guys who fired them were gun enthusiasts would definitely at least to some degree pretty much know what they're doing.

 

As far as me personally charging the rifles, I've watch videos, and had my friends teach me, I rack back and let it rip, and I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. Besides, most of the jamming does not occur on the first round, which would be possibly related to the charging of the rifle, manually, as it's occurring usually after the third or fourth round, and yes, the magazines are not being overloaded with bullets and such.

 

I know this all sounds incredible, but I'm telling you there event for Saiga rifles that have been malfunctioning mostly due to jamming issues.

 

Do bear in mind pleased that I did mention that the 223 that was malfunctioning was not jamming as it apparently had a wrong piece put in it by somebody, or the factory, that did not allow for the bolt mechanism to go back or forward pass the magazine, I could not tell you what part was wrong, but some part definitely was wrong as the guy I bought it from who is very honest told me he discovered that one of the pieces was too large and that was hitting the magazine and that's why it could not charge back or forth. That's only the 223, the other three have or had jamming issues.

Please ! just post a short video of the guns jamming. I have no Idea what you are talking about .

The next time I go shooting I'm going to do just that

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Adding a bullet-guide only increases the chance of reliable feeding.

 

I don't see a conflict in the law.

 

Every other version of the AK uses a bullet-guide.

 

The Saiga Sporter incorporates "shortcuts" for the US Market and they omitted the bullet-guide to streamline production. Stupid, IMHO.

 

Add a bullet-guide and then you can use standard AK mags if SHTF.

Edited by Sim_Player
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Adding a bullet-guide only increases the chance of reliable feeding.

 

I don't see a conflict in the law.

 

Every other version of the AK uses a bullet-guide.

 

The Saiga Sporter incorporates "shortcuts" for the US Market and they omitted the bullet-guide to streamline production. Stupid, IMHO.

 

Add a bullet-guide and then you can use standard AK mags if SHTF.

if I add a bullet guide will it take standard nonmodifed Saiga factory magazines?

Are AK mags the same as Saiga mags?

In NY and we are limited to 10 rounds mags, with 7 bullet limit in it. But at the range we can put 10 rounds in.

(No I am not making this crazy S&^% up!).

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Saiga mags are normal AK mags, but with an added tab at the front to act as a feed ramp for the rounds.

 

Adding a bullet guide will allow you to use any standard AK mag, including various five or ten round mags that are much cheaper than Saiga mags.

 

After adding a bullet guide, you will not be able to use your Saiga specific mags unless yoh remove the feed tab from the front of those mags. The tab will hit the bottom of the bullet guide while inserting the mag.

 

Also no offense but you live in Manhattan. You're already fucked if SHTF. Where do you plan to run into a stash of standard capacity AK mags in NYC?

Edited by mancat
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Saiga mags are normal AK mags, but with an added tab at the front to act as a feed ramp for the rounds.

 

Adding a bullet guide will allow you to use any standard AK mag, including various five or ten round mags that are much cheaper than Saiga mags.

 

After adding a bullet guide, you will not be able to use your Saiga specific mags unless yoh remove the feed tab from the front of those mags. The tab will hit the bottom of the bullet guide while inserting the mag.

 

Also no offense but you live in Manhattan. You're already fucked if SHTF. Where do you plan to run into a stash of standard capacity AK mags in NYC?

I also live on Long Island ;)

 

I am limited to 10 round mags; do the AK mags come in 10 rounders?

Good place to get them? Stick with factory mags correct?

O.P. Which bear ammo are you using? I know a lot of places stopped carrying brown bear because of issues.

I agree actually

I tried different Bear steel case and I think that may have been part of the issue

I think lots of guys hit on many issues that probably all explain the unexlainable

Fast production at factory, guns messed with by someone, etc.

Knew four bad ones was near impossible

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