Polish Tantal Questions

[breid1970 327]

I have the opportunity to purchase a Polish Tantal with less the 500 rounds through it for 575.  The price includes 2 magazines and 400 rounds.  The serial number begins with YY so I am assuming it was made after the TTL series that was known for its keyhole issues.  However, from what I have been told the original barrel caused some keyholeing.  That barrel was replaced with what I assume was a U.S. made barrel.  Once the barrel was replaced it did not have the issue any longer.  I now have a few questions.

 

1.  Are they quality rifles?  This one has dimples but no side mount for optics.

2. Are they as accurate as the other AK-74's out there?

3. Durability and reliability.  Are they as solid as saiga 5.45's.

 

 

Ammo is pretty cheap and easy to come with.  I see a lot of it out there that comes in giant sardine cans and is supposedly corrosive.  If the ammo is corrosive how do you treat the rifle after shooting it?  I assume you just clean it after every shoot.  Is this true?   I know these are a lot of questions.  If this seems like a bad idea I will just get myself a Waffenwerks Ak-74.  They too have everything I want on them they are just a little more expensive.  I am not worried about the folding stock, they are way to easy to change out to worry about something as simple as that.  Thanks a bunch in advance.  

[Shandlanos 1,470]

The issue with keyholing was a result of century monkies cutting 5.45x39 chambers into 5.56mm barrel blanks. If you run a piece of soft lead down the barrel and check it with a micrometer, you can know for sure. Fishing weights are pretty soft, pretty easy to shove down a bore.

$575 for that package is a fine deal in today's market. That ammo is indeed corrosive. Dissolve away the corrosive salts with water, then clean and oil like you normally would. If it's going to be a little while before you can give it a detailed cleaning, just using water or windex, then WD-40 to displace the water, is good enough for a quick field cleaning so it doesn't rust up.

[ShadowFire 220]

Yeah when in doubt you can slug it and measure with a micrometer.  You can make a caliper say anything, they help but I trust my micrometer more than my calipers.

 

I have one with the trouble serial number range.  It does not keyhole and I don't plan on selling it, it's a keeper.  I would suggest slugging any Tantal and if it turns up bad, you can subtract from the price the gunsmith bill + barrel price and offer that price instead.

 

I plan on nitro carburizing my barrel sometime in the future so I can preserve the bore and neutralize the rust problem with 5.45 ammo.  I will probably do the same with the compensator as it has no rust resistance either I noticed.

Edited November 4, 2013 by ShadowFire

[breid1970 327]

Atlantic has plum Bulgarian stock sets poly. They should fit this perfect right? Or am I better off getting a new waffen werks 74? They are 699 with four mags and a grade A stock.

[mancat 2,368]

The issue with keyholing was a result of century monkies cutting 5.45x39 chambers into 5.56mm barrel blanks. If you run a piece of soft lead down the barrel and check it with a micrometer, you can know for sure. Fishing weights are pretty soft, pretty easy to shove down a bore.

 

$575 for that package is a fine deal in today's market. That ammo is indeed corrosive. Dissolve away the corrosive salts with water, then clean and oil like you normally would. If it's going to be a little while before you can give it a detailed cleaning, just using water or windex, then WD-40 to displace the water, is good enough for a quick field cleaning so it doesn't rust up.

 

The Tantal issue was different than the problems with their Bulgarian builds with the 5.56 bores.. The early bad barrels on the Tantals were correct for 5.45x39 but had the wrong twist rate. They might work OK with heavy grain bullets but will keyhole the usual milsurp 5.45.

 

As far as the Tantal you're looking at goes.. Try and find out if it has a surplus Polish barrel. If it does, GRAB IT!

 

An in-spec US 5.45 barrel is still good, but not as nice as the original chrome-lined, hammer-forged barrel. That's another reason that you may want to go with a WW or Saiga if you intend to use it as a bullet hose - that fast-burning 5.45x39 will smoothbore a non-chromed US barrel over a much shorter lifespan.

 

Otherwise, the Tantal overall is a high-quality AK-74 variant with some unique features that make it a nicer rifle than some - especially if yours has the left-side selector that was modified to operate as a thumb safety.

Edited November 4, 2013 by mancat

[breid1970 327]

This one does have the left side selecter lever. I will be swapping that wire stock out with a warsaw length stock and bulgarian hand guards. Got a nice bulgarian set for 45.

[Redrum4u 125]

Can I get the wire stock from you?

[mancat 2,368]

Try the wire stock out.. They are more comfortable than they look.

 

The plum furniture will fit fine on the buttstock and lower handguard, but the gas tube cover probably won't fit well. The Tantal doesn't use a standard retainer on the gas tube.

[breid1970 327]

Well crap. What kind does it use,

I hope they aren't rare

[mancat 2,368]

The Tantal gas tube cover has a small tab at the rear that fits into the rear sight block, as well as a retention spring in the front.

 

Your Tantal will already have one..

 

 

You can also use a Polish Beryl gas tube cover, which is in the same format and will fit securely in the Tantal. Only difference? It's black.

http://www.robertrtg.com/berylupperhg.html

 

Edited November 5, 2013 by mancat

[HappYBallZ 31]

Just food for thought ... J&G just had CAI Tantals for $499. So  I would say this would be a on-the-fence deal for me; it would greatly depend on condition and such.

[breid1970 327]

The condition is spot on near perfect.  And comes with 400 rounds of wolf ammo.. Right now my only issue is finding a upper hand guard that has a rail on it so I can put on optics for my blind ass.

• Im waiting to hear if it has a crome lined barrel or if its a true polish surplus barrel.

[breid1970 327]

final thought.  If anyone has any experience with any sort of rail for the top hand guard please let me know. I have poured over multiple forums and found nothing of substance other then MI brand which is way out of my budget. I just want a small rail on the top of the top hand guard.

[haugpatr 972]

I would wait and see if there will be any cheap VEPR's anytime soon, chances are that Tantal has a US made barrel.  Prices are on the way down IMHO and there might be some good sales right around the corner on Black Friday.

[Arik 565]

Crap price for a crap rifle!

 

Actually the price and rifle are ok but add "CENTURY" into it and it all turns to CRAP!  I've spent enough money on Century to know to just stay away from them. In the end you spend more trying to get it right then you would have if you would've bought a better rifle in the first place. When I see a Century for sale WITH mags AND ammo alarms start going off. Is it that fucked that the owner will do anything to get rid of it? I would leave it alone unless you want to spend $575 to find out if its a good barrel or not, if it was properly built or not.....thats up to you.

 

However, if you plan on spending close to $600 on a rifle I recomand you wait, look around and in the mean time, while you are waiting, add a little more money and get yourself a better rifle. Prices are dropping. Just to give you an idea. Within the last few months I bought .....CzechPoint VZ58 with 6 mags $599...........NIB RobArm converted Vepr $800.........Bulgy folding skeleton stock AK74 with original barrel $900 and I feel that I over paid a bit on it. Just yesterday on TheAKforum someone sold another RobArm converted Vepr 5.45 but this time the rare 20in barrel for $800. The funny thing is even at that price (new they were over a grand) it still sat for a while before being sold.

 

Look around. Dont jump on the first turd that floats by

[breid1970 327]

I'm going to sell my AK and just wait for the prices to drop and then get a dependable bulgarian 74. I am a big fan of the waffen werks. They have a good deal going on one with four mags a case and side optics mount for 699. Thate witha grade A stock and matching furnature. That was my goal in the first place to trade or sell my 47 for a 74.

[HappYBallZ 31]

I'm going to sell my AK and just wait for the prices to drop and then get a dependable bulgarian 74. I am a big fan of the waffen werks. They have a good deal going on one with four mags a case and side optics mount for 699. Thate witha grade A stock and matching furnature. That was my goal in the first place to trade or sell my 47 for a 74.

Be weary of Waffen Werks now... multiple people reporting serious issues with them.  Check out AKfiles.com forum for details.

Edited November 5, 2013 by HappYBallZ

[mancat 2,368]

Aside from the early barrel twist rate issues, the Century Tantals have all been good builds. Century uses NDS receivers and G2 trigger groups. I've rarely heard of the builds themselves being fucked up.

 

Sad to hear about the new WW problems. I looked at the AKFiles thread. It looks like most of the issues are in their in-house receivers since they stopped using NDS. I almost bought one of those receives when they were being sold cheap this summer. Now I know why - they were probably rejects.

Edited November 5, 2013 by mancat

[Shandlanos 1,470]

I've seen Century-assembled AKs plenty fucked up. Canted sights are common, bad headspacing not too uncommon. IO is just as bad - I've seen one of their rifles with a rear trunnion installed incorrectly. Only one have was fully on the rail, and the receiver was bent at the back right corner so that it could be riveted together anyway.

[breid1970 327]

All this century talk has scared me off. Am going to try a package deal trade. My saiga ak with ammo for a comparable AR with ammo. Shouldnt be too hard

[HappYBallZ 31]

I've seen Century-assembled AKs plenty fucked up. Canted sights are common, bad headspacing not too uncommon. IO is just as bad - I've seen one of their rifles with a rear trunnion installed incorrectly. Only one have was fully on the rail, and the receiver was bent at the back right corner so that it could be riveted together anyway.

Canted sights are mostly Romanian factory build quality problems (WASR) ... as far as I know any WASR are unmolested with exception of compliance parts(and mag well widening on some for double stack mags)... CAI (and whoever they hire for builds) can mess stuff up but they do get a lot of flak for stuff that was not even their fault.

 

I just ordered a Tantal from J&G ... will report when I get it in my hands.

 

All this century talk has scared me off. Am going to try a package deal trade. My saiga ak with ammo for a comparable AR with ammo. Shouldnt be too hard

ARs are the same story... could be shit or could be awesome, really depends on the manufacturer and luck.

 

Why get rid of Saiga anyway?

Edited November 6, 2013 by HappYBallZ

[dashowdy 141]

Why not have both I love having both 7.62x39 and 5.45 I dont think I could part with either, full russian cold hammer forged barrels, does not get much better than that. Was going to buy another rifle but decided to spend money on mags ammo and parts for these 2. Dont get rid of your saiga and go over to the dark side, and I love ar's as well they are great shooters, you cant drag your ar behind your vehicle for 10 miles and load a mag and bust through it with no failures.

 

I had contemplated the same thing switching to 5.56 and ar's completely but they just dont inspire that durability and confidence I get with my saiga or my romy 74, besides I am a cheap bastard and ammo is cheap.

[Sdustin 578]

You can drag a "quality" ar behind a truck and have no problem. Easier to use substandard part in an ak and still make it run. An ar needs to have the "right" parts.