kpanic 1 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Well took my Vepr out today to shoot, and first factory 5 round mag i put in slam fired! It blew the mag up and now my bolt is stuck and wont move???? WTF!!! I am not the most gun inclined person around... what is the best route to go to get this thing back shooting again? pictures coming soon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bunker83 22 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Need pics. If the mag blew up and the bolts stuck it sounds like something more than a slam fire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Just out of curiosity what ammo were you shooting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
libertarian 108 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 OK, so for a first post this is something serious. Please post pictures for everyone to see of your weapon, the bolt stuck and the mag (or whats left of it) for everyone to see. I'm sure the knowledgeable smiths out there will have something to say. I do have to ask the same question as physicsnerd asked, "What ammo are you shooting?" GySgt NR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 If debris gets in the firing pin's tube., it is possible, however improbable Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Withholding comments til after seeing more facts and photos. Something doesn't add up is all I'll say now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kpanic 1 Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Ill post pics tommorow im at work tonight but... Swear lol iv shot this thing a dozen times... but today first time pulling it back and release and boom! Scared me to death! litterally blew out the bottom of the mag and cracked down all for edges! and it was Herters from cabelas i believe is what it is called... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 OK everyone. Lets hold all future posts till kpanic can post some pictures...any posts from here on out will be deleted until this member has his pictures up. Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to resolving this issue and hope no one else has this happen to them. Respectfully, GySgt NR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kpanic 1 Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Well I got the bolt free... there is some burs and shinny metal now on the bolt ... is there any way to get a whole new bolt assembly? Because it goes back in but gets stuck at points, I really have to muscle it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 The guys are going to see a lot more photos than that. Try to get close-ups of the bolt, the rails, the chamber and especially any damage or worn areas. Take the bolt carrier out of the gun, and the bolt out of the carrier. The more angles you include, the better they will be able to diagnose what went wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bunker83 22 Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Post more pics, some of the bolt ( different angles) and some of the receiver without the bolt in it ( different angles) also where was the bolt stuck at? In battery? Towards the rear? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kpanic 1 Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 I gotta post these one at a time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kpanic 1 Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Another Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kpanic 1 Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 One more Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kpanic 1 Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Another Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Your firing pin is protruding. Are they spring loaded on the VEPRs? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yes it is and yes they are. His is either bent, has no spring installed, or has something keeping it from being able to move. Kpanic push out the larger diameter pin retaining the bolt head and take it apart. If the pin or striker is damaged and got stuck poking out like that, then the bolt moved far enough forward to strip a new round from the mag, and the firing pin was still poking out, before locking into battery with the bolt head turning & lugs locking in the trunnion, that would cause what happened here. The bolt head doesn't turn and lock until the carrier itself is all the way forward but the bolt is already home with extractor against trunnion before that happens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Obviously Cobra knows more than me, but unless you have previously taken the bolt apart, I would consider calling about the warranty before punching out those pins. It would probably be to your advantage to leave the bolt just as it is if you're going to send it back. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kpanic 1 Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Thats what my crew figured is the pin is broke or stuck... I bought this from a member on here through gunbroker.com what or who should I call? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 There are several dealers who sold the Vepr 12 but the importer would most likely be the best place to ask about any warranty issues. Being a second owner though IDK how that would work. Maybe someone else will chime in about that. Does the bolt head still turn freely? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 I'm pretty curious to see whether it was a bind due to bending or debris (or rust?) in the bolt assembly around the firing pin. I also wonder about the people who keep absurd amounts of grease in their gun. Grit can stick to that. While it's pretty obvious that the protruding pin caused this one, I could see some grit sticking to the bolt face or to the primer of the ammo itself the way I've seen some people lube up their guns. I am not aware of any documented case of this happening, but I'd call that risk foreseeable (and remote.) BTW I'm glad the OP wasn't hurt. It's fortunate that in rare occasions like this the force has somewhere to go other than towards the right handed shooter's face and hands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) are my eyes deceiving me, or does the bolt "tail" has a slight bend to it? Edited November 13, 2013 by Matthew Hopkins Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kpanic 1 Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 It kinda looks like it but I cant tell ... all I kno is that it goes all back togather but if I release the bolt hard it kinda gets jammed and I have to tap it with a hammer back to get it to slide back... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) It kinda looks like it but I cant tell ... what I would do is to take the bolt, go to a flat table, coffee table, kitchen etc.. something that is flat, then take the "tail" of the bolt and roll it on the edge of the table, if it is indeed bent, they'll be no mistaking that, it will wobble when you roll it along. and you'll be able to feel it all I kno is that it goes all back togather but if I release the bolt hard it kinda gets jammed and I have to tap it with a hammer back to get it to slide back... that ain't right. what I would do is keep the action cover open, then bring the bolt group back the ride it forward, looking carefully where it's getting hug up. it's a 99 percent certainty it is getting hung up when it starts going into the ejector rail. it could be the ejector rail might have been bent down when, or if you do have a bent bolt "tail" it might be that, or could be a combination of both problem together. people have this misconception, spread by the myth that you can slap a AK without regards to tolerances, and it'll work. but that isn't the case. when I had my AK74U built on a 74 receiver, empty shell casing wouldn't eject of the receiver, it either "stove piped" or the empty case would end up in the trigger group. after a half hour of eye balling and examining the ejection cycle with a empty casing found the that the whole problem was the ejector rail was spot welded 1-2 mm lower then it should have been, which caused the ejector rail not to hit center of the empty cartridge but near the bottom, which either caused it to ride pass it and the empty ended up in the trigger group, or it "stove piped", because it didn't hit it enough to completely eject it. well, a small hammer and a couple of taps up on the ejector, rectified that problem, it now ejects the casing like 30 feet to the right. which sucks if you are a couple shooting benches to the right of me Edited November 13, 2013 by Matthew Hopkins 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yeah rolling it on a table should be easy to tell, or you could insert it backwards (through the tail end of the carrier first) then holding the carrier out of the weapon spin it around and look for a wobble off center if the bolt stem is bent. From one pic it even looks like the bolt head is sitting crooked but it's hard to tell anything from just pictures. Things like that can just be camera angle illusions. Easy to tell though if you rotate it and watch it. If it is indeed bent and is binding inside the carrier if trying to rotate it from the other end like I suggested, that will be an obvious problem. If it's binding where the locking lugs go into the trunnion, which would explain having to hammer it loose after it closes all the way, this is definitely bad. Watch this video clip of a nice smooth bolt & carrier function. You should not be getting any real binding even on an unpolished bolt. Look at the rear faces of the bolt's locking lugs too. If they are marred, chafed, or show signs of abnormal wear from binding on the trunnion you have a serious problem and should contact the importer. Second owner or not if you have done no serious mods to the action (or the other guy) then they should be willing to take the gun back to at least examine. I have had one bolt and carrier replaced by the previous Saiga importer RAAC when it was obvious it was defective from the factory. Your Vepr bolt looks similar to that one with the chipped looking edges I'm seeing on the lands where it engages the rails. How many rounds have been fired through the weapon? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Your gun is not safe to operate. SLAM FIRE is a dangerous malfunction. A shell exploding outside of the chamber is a dangerous malfunction. The malfunction(s) you are describing are extremely dangerous. You should NOT attempt to repair these malfunctions yourself. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 To the OP, As stated by a well, known, licensed dealer and gunsmith you need to have your weapon checked out by a qualified individual. Please do not risk your life or limb trying to fix this weapon on your own. I hope this thread and the members that posted has helped you. Respectfully, Gunny NR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Strange how the negativity and outright insulting attacks pile in so quickly, but amount of apologies when the data comes through are lacking. Disappointing. OP: Hope you get this addressed. I would contact the importer despite the second hand purchase. If they are a responsible organization they will want to investigate the cause of this issue and should be willing to buy the firearm back from you in order to investigate it properly, make you whole and avoid any liability of this being out in the wild. I would think the tiny financial hit would be by far outweighed by the upside. Who knows if they will see it that way though. Edited November 14, 2013 by ec4321 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Care to be more specific on just what "insulting attacks and negativity" you are referring to there? I for one was only trying to help. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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