Saiga 223 mag options... So much info, I am confused now.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

In any case, I am picking up Saiga 223. I have the following options

1. SGM mags. Pro: No mods required, Cons: $30 each x10 = 300

2. Tapco Galil mags: Pro: US made (3 parts). Cons: I have no idea how well they are made.

3. Tapco PAP M85 Mag: Pro: US made (3 parts). Cons: I have no idea how well they are made and do they even work with SAIGA.

4. Beryl Mags. I have heard pretty bad things about them (not as bad as promag, though and full conversion of rifle is required.

5. Yugo PAP M85 Mag: Pro well made. Con: Full conversion for rifle is required.

6. Bulgarian 223 mags. Pro: well made. Con: Full conversion for the rifle is required.

 

While I do NOT doubt my skill in installing a bullet guide, I DO doubt my skills in installing FCG, not to mention that I prefer the hunting stock configuration, it just feels better in my hands to me. Probably because since I was 11 I was shooting SKS and 16 gauge Izh shotgun. Using US made mags (Tapco), forces me to just replace gas piston and foregrip.

So I have few questions:

1. How well are TAPCO mags made? do they have metal reinforcement like Bulgarian? I know Promag mags are to be avoided.

2. Will Tapco Pap M85 mag work in Saiga?

3. Do you, folks, know anyone in N. Illinois who can help me install a FCG?

4. Will YUGO PAP M85 mags work in FULLY converted Saiga?

 

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Where ya at in N IL?

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

Lake Zurich. 45 mins from Kenosha.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

You're over an hour from me. I'm in DeKalb county.

I think member "liberty r death" is from your area....

Krebs customs is also somewhat close to you, if you're interested in a smith doing your work.

 

The fcg work is extremely easy to do. If you can do a bullet guide, you can do the rest of it.

 

Do you have parts and tools?

 

Edit; Tapco mags have no metal, they are all plastic.   

Edited November 17, 2013 by Mullet Man

[mancat 2,368]

Have never had any problems with the Beryl mags.. They are my preferred mag for the Saiga, with the best fit and seating height. They simply need a small bit of modding either to the individual mags or the rifle itself. These mags are steel reinforced at the front and are pretty stout. The newer versions (green transparent plastic) lack the reinforcements but are apparently current Polish military issue. Unfortunately they're not that cheap any more, but they're still cheaper than Bulgarian 5.56 mags.

 

Surplus Galil mags are hit or miss. They work reliably out of the box on some S223, they don't on others. They seem to work best with the slabside models without mag well dimples - probably some minute trunnion/receiver differences. The problem is that they don't sit high enough in the magwell in dimpled models. leading to the bolt running over the leading round. You can bend the tabs or add some weld to them to raise the seating height.

 

Tapco Galil mags work great in all of them, but are all-plastic mags with a pretty flimsy rear locking tab. I broke one by punching it while inserted in the rifle.

 

PAP M85 mags are very close to Galil mags. Some people have said that they work unmodified, some say they have to be modded. Not sure yet - I may pick up a couple to find out. They are very cheap right now in steel form, almost a third of the cost of surplus steel Galil mags. Serbia is cranking them out and shipping a ton of them to us, which is a great thing.

 

Promag AK223 mags work great with the Saiga, but are even flimsier than the Tapcos. The front locking tab is the weak point on these. Don't even bother with the Saiga-specific versions - the built in bullet guide will snap off immediately.

 

I have no experience with SGM mags - I installed a bullet guide immediately when converting.

 

Out of all of the "all plastic" mag options, I would say that the Tapcos are probably the best.

 

Make sure to look into the AR mag adapters as well. If you already own an AR this is a great option.

Edited November 17, 2013 by mancat

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

I don't have the parts yet, since I am not sure which mags I am using. As far as tools, I got dremel and bunch of hammers and screwdrivers.

Saiga 223 currently available is "detachable stock" model. It has two buttons on rear receiver which "disconnects the stock" for ease of transportation. It has different rear trunnion and can NOT be modified into a pistol grip configurtaion (according to guys from Legion USA), without changing rear trunnion as well, which gets to be too bothersome. So, if I want it in high cap mod I have to:

1. Use US made mags. (that would be TAPCO or SGM)

2. Replace FCG and front guard and gas piston and use other mags. I still need to figure out what mags to use.

[mancat 2,368]

I'm confused, can you please post a photo of your Saiga?

[Mullet Man 2,114]

I'm confused, can you please post a photo of your Saiga?

Ditto. Never seen or heard of this model....Pics please.

[EthanM 514]

Look into an ar mag conversion.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

http://legionusainc.com/izsl-132m.html

 

Take a look at the pics where stock is removed. The rear trunnion is COMPLETELY different

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Weird. But the rear trunnion should have no affect on moving the fcg to a traditional position.

Disassemble it and look (from inside), for unused holes covered by the plate under the receiver.

 

Edit; It looks like it has the .308 or the odd ball 30-06 saiga fcg (no sporter fcg axis pins)... 

Edited November 17, 2013 by Mullet Man

[mancat 2,368]

Yeah you would still be able to move the FCG..

 

The interesting thing is that it uses what appears to be the AK-74M rear folding stock trunnion, but part of the trunnion that normally has the stock pivot hinge is covered up by the receiver. I wonder if the receiver could be carefully cut back to expose the pivot hinge, and then you could install either a triangle folder or AK-100 series solid folder. I think I can see the pivot hinge in the expanded photos, but again you cannot inser the hinge pin without cutting away part of the receiver.

 

Personally I would just avoid this model, although it does offer some cool conversion possibilities.

 

By the time you were done converting that, you could've just bought a used SLR-106FR for the same price.

Edited November 17, 2013 by mancat

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

I really do not wish to convert it, it has a thick barrel, that's why I am getting it. It is heavy and reinforced, to be as accurate as SAIGA can be. I probably just going to replace the FCG and foregrip and be done about it, I just wanna know which mags are the best for the money

[mancat 2,368]

It really sounds like you should buy a VEPR .223 instead.

 

You'll get the heavier barrel and will have a "normal" FCG out of the box, ready to accept a normal buttstock and pistol grip. Even the slant-cut receiver VEPRs are ready for a normal buttstock and PG, but just would need a small blocking plate to cover up the slant cut - these are available in the market place.

[ResponsiveResolve 7]

Have never had any problems with the Beryl mags.. They are my preferred mag for the Saiga, with the best fit and seating height. They simply need a small bit of modding either to the individual mags or the rifle itself. These mags are steel reinforced at the front and are pretty stout. The newer versions (green transparent plastic) lack the reinforcements but are apparently current Polish military issue. Unfortunately they're not that cheap any more, but they're still cheaper than Bulgarian 5.56 mags.

 

Surplus Galil mags are hit or miss. They work reliably out of the box on some S223, they don't on others. They seem to work best with the slabside models without mag well dimples - probably some minute trunnion/receiver differences. The problem is that they don't sit high enough in the magwell in dimpled models. leading to the bolt running over the leading round. You can bend the tabs or add some weld to them to raise the seating height.

 

Tapco Galil mags work great in all of them, but are all-plastic mags with a pretty flimsy rear locking tab. I broke one by punching it while inserted in the rifle.

 

PAP M85 mags are very close to Galil mags. Some people have said that they work unmodified, some say they have to be modded. Not sure yet - I may pick up a couple to find out. They are very cheap right now in steel form, almost a third of the cost of surplus steel Galil mags. Serbia is cranking them out and shipping a ton of them to us, which is a great thing.

 

Promag AK223 mags work great with the Saiga, but are even flimsier than the Tapcos. The front locking tab is the weak point on these. Don't even bother with the Saiga-specific versions - the built in bullet guide will snap off immediately.

 

I have no experience with SGM mags - I installed a bullet guide immediately when converting.

 

Out of all of the "all plastic" mag options, I would say that the Tapcos are probably the best.

 

Make sure to look into the AR mag adapters as well. If you already own an AR this is a great option.

 

I purchased some steel M85 mags from buds.  They didn't work.  The back of the mag was hitting the receiver support bar after filing the front of the mag to fit inside the front trunnion.  I am in the process of filing down the back of the mag to see if it will seat.  I have heard that the plastic M85's will work?

 

My saiga is a 2006 without mag dimples.

Edited November 18, 2013 by ResponsiveResolve

[mikebaker1129 19]

Have never had any problems with the Beryl mags.. They are my preferred mag for the Saiga, with the best fit and seating height. They simply need a small bit of modding either to the individual mags or the rifle itself. These mags are steel reinforced at the front and are pretty stout. The newer versions (green transparent plastic) lack the reinforcements but are apparently current Polish military issue. Unfortunately they're not that cheap any more, but they're still cheaper than Bulgarian 5.56 mags.

 

This +1. Beryl mags are some of the best out there and are very easy to mod,you remove some material from the front of the magazine. Mancat has a excellent youtube video on this,but the mod is not limited to the Beryls, Bulgarian mags will also need this mod also. The Orilite galil mags work well also with minor mods.Tapco Galils are loose as a goose in my slabside Saiga,but fit well in my Vepr.

 Lately I have been picking up the Beryls and Bulgarian mags they both fit the Vepr and Saiga with very little mods. Pap85 mags are robust and can be made to work but they require much more work than the 2 above. 

[mikebaker1129 19]

•  Responsive resolve ,yes you will need to file the rear of the mag up towards the top a little to clear the support in the rear.

[hunkylynch 0]

Promag AK223 mags work great with the Saiga, but are even flimsier than the Tapcos. The front locking tab is the weak point on these. Don't even bother with the Saiga-specific versions - the built in bullet guide will snap off immediately.   

 

I've heard both good and bad reviews of the Pro Mag.  I also heard Pro Mag corrected the problem they were having with their Saiga 223 and they're much better now.

[tk421991 1]

Anyone have any experience with the .223 SGM mags? I'd like to buy seven next week for my .223 Saiga M that I won't be converting (I like the length of pull in comparison to a traditional AK and it's "featureless").

 

http://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/product_p/sgm-223-30rd-mag.htm

 

[mikebaker1129 19]

Anyone have any experience with the .223 SGM mags? I'd like to buy seven next week for my .223 Saiga M that I won't be converting (I like the length of pull in comparison to a traditional AK and it's "featureless").

 

http://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/product_p/sgm-223-30rd-mag.htm

 

No, but I would be interested to know if the mag parts (internals interchange) between the factory mags and the SGM when you get them?

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

I use SGM mags in my wife's unconverted 223. Never had a problem. Over 2000 rounds fired between 5 mags.

[mikebaker1129 19]

Liberty-r-death  do you know if the internals of the SGM mags and the factory mags interchange?

Thanks....

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

Mikebaker1129 I do not know. Sorry. I can check 7.62x39 mags tomorrow night to see those work. If they do it's likely the 233 would.

Edited April 28, 2014 by liberty -r- death

[Funkerman 0]

Have never had any problems with the Beryl mags.. They are my preferred mag for the Saiga, with the best fit and seating height. They simply need a small bit of modding either to the individual mags or the rifle itself. These mags are steel reinforced at the front and are pretty stout. The newer versions (green transparent plastic) lack the reinforcements but are apparently current Polish military issue. Unfortunately they're not that cheap any more, but they're still cheaper than Bulgarian 5.56 mags.

 

Surplus Galil mags are hit or miss. They work reliably out of the box on some S223, they don't on others. They seem to work best with the slabside models without mag well dimples - probably some minute trunnion/receiver differences. The problem is that they don't sit high enough in the magwell in dimpled models. leading to the bolt running over the leading round. You can bend the tabs or add some weld to them to raise the seating height.

 

Tapco Galil mags work great in all of them, but are all-plastic mags with a pretty flimsy rear locking tab. I broke one by punching it while inserted in the rifle.

 

PAP M85 mags are very close to Galil mags. Some people have said that they work unmodified, some say they have to be modded. Not sure yet - I may pick up a couple to find out. They are very cheap right now in steel form, almost a third of the cost of surplus steel Galil mags. Serbia is cranking them out and shipping a ton of them to us, which is a great thing.

 

Promag AK223 mags work great with the Saiga, but are even flimsier than the Tapcos. The front locking tab is the weak point on these. Don't even bother with the Saiga-specific versions - the built in bullet guide will snap off immediately.

 

I have no experience with SGM mags - I installed a bullet guide immediately when converting.

 

Out of all of the "all plastic" mag options, I would say that the Tapcos are probably the best.

 

Make sure to look into the AR mag adapters as well. If you already own an AR this is a great option.

pardon this but  do these rules apply to an unmodifed Saiga or a rifel with the bullet ramp installed or not?I am a bit unsure. Seriously considering buying a  Siaga in .223( 5.56 ) and if the M85 mags will work in a modified gun then I'll go that route.