Jump to content

Recommended Posts

33.25  minutes of BS marketing ploy, I was waiting for the "WAIT THERE'S MORE" BS toward the end,  like on the "info commercials".

 

 now when they come up with a round that finds it's target when you shoot anywhere except  near the target, then that would be revolutionary

Edited by Matthew Hopkins
Link to post
Share on other sites

Learn how to fucking shoot and you can hit with a full 230 grains instead of a third of that. The tool from the manufacturer kept referring to the muzzle as the tip. So much for weapons education....com. The host was so excited, he must not be able to shoot either. ATF approved it because they know non shooters will rely on this to be a "magic" round to defend themselves when the BATFE is tasked to confiscate firearms and it won't be as effective as a single projectile. A fool and his money are soon parted. Where are you supposed to aim with this "Pray and Spray" ammo to hit center mass and stop a threat then?

Edited by MT Predator
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

What a bunch of hype! Until I see wound channels or at least ballistics gel test, it looks like an answer to a question nobody asked!

 

I have little hope that the wound/ballistics gel test would be worth a damn!

Exactly!
Link to post
Share on other sites

So... There's no way in hell I'm watching a 33-minute advertisement. Anyone who sat through that shite feel like boiling it down? What's the basic premise of this "new" idea. From the still that loads with the embedded video, it sure looks like chainshot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So... There's no way in hell I'm watching a 33-minute advertisement. Anyone who sat through that shite feel like boiling it down? What's the basic premise of this "new" idea. From the still that loads with the embedded video, it sure looks like chainshot.

My thoughts exactly

Link to post
Share on other sites

Learn how to fucking shoot and you can hit with a full 230 grains instead of a third of that. The tool from the manufacturer kept referring to the muzzle as the tip. So much for weapons education....com. The host was so excited, he must not be able to shoot either. ATF approved it because they know non shooters will rely on this to be a "magic" round to defend themselves when the BATFE is tasked to confiscate firearms and it won't be as effective as a single projectile. A fool and his money are soon parted. Where are you supposed to aim with this "Pray and Spray" ammo to hit center mass and stop a threat then?

I thought the same thing.  Sooo, when aiming for center mass, the projectiles will hit both shoulders and the stomach?  It seems incredibly sensible to aim over his right shoulder to hit center mass, really?    

 

I have watched a few things from weapons education and i think the rich newyork talkin italian stallion is a fuckin weirdo.

What do you guys think about this dude in general?  Doesnt seem like my cup of tea

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I am going to wait and see what the results of the community testing will be.

 

No its not a funny or witty remark but it is the truth.

 

Anyone that has had to shoot with the adrenal shakes understands the problem, wait and see what happens.

 

PS:

As for the guy that runs the channel Ive seen a couple of vids from him and yeah he aint a good ol' boy but I am only concerned with content not presentation. BTW the two Ive seen made fairly good sense but that's not a huge sample.

Edited by Rhodes1968
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd look at how strong the fiber is.  Does it cut flesh/cloth/leather, and does it "bolo" the missed fragments back into the target.  Like in the head shot in the video, one fragment missed over the sholder.  Is that fragment going to get pulled around and hit the perp in the back of the head?  Or, is it going to snap the line and continue on as a miss?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The tethers were described as a kevlar type of material, and they do seem to hold from what little I saw.

Just getting this to work at all must have been a royal beech.

 

Working out the physics in my head (heh);

If the outward centrifugal force ends and if indeed the fragments are providing lift in an inward direction it should do as he described and tend to return to a line of POA.

 

Now that means the "wings" are exerting a inwards force in opposition to the outward centrifugal force which explains why the three fragments would also return to a more condensed grouping past a certain point as the centrifugal force reduces due to friction. 

 

Production has to be a nightmare on these things but if it holds up...

Link to post
Share on other sites

So we've got 3 73 grain flat  projectiles at something like 800 FPS. I'm going on the record estimating that when someone gel tests this, the fragments that hit will penetrate 2.5-3.5"

Link to post
Share on other sites

I  like that the 4th comment down is TN outdoors 9 responding to requests for him to test it, and saying that it won't be worth the bother. I wish he would, just to save people some money.

 

Like the guys in the video, I am excited to see the shotgun version too. Imagine a projectile fired out of a shotgun that has a predicable spread. Oh- wait. A perfect pattern right around all the vitals, erm. Hmm. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well gel testing isnt cheap as it would have to be the clear gel in a wide form to get a good view.

But someone will do the testing, eventually perhaps many.

 

Now as for the idea behind it, shrapnel pieces no bigger have caused some pretty rough wounds and deaths.

Ever seen the wound channel of a miss? Me neither.

 

This stands or falls on the idea of getting that first hit as opposed to first miss. 

If you have ever seen the vids of close range shoot-outs where nobody gets hit after some ridiculous amount of ammo fired back and forth then you have seen the problem.

 

Right now its just interesting. 

Edited by Rhodes1968
Link to post
Share on other sites

All true. But, most people don't practice at all. I know every one sucks under stress, even the best trained, but think of this. 1) that first hit probably won't end the fight any better than a .22 short 2) Take the scenario of a 7-11 employee firing wildly over the counter, or an incompetent LAPD guy unloading on a pickup full of ladies, or any of the other sloppy shooting we've all seen in dozens of surveilance camera videos. Now think how many semi-lethal shards would be wildly missing in 14" circles. Remember, when they miss, it's as often by feet as inches. When people slow down and aim they hit pretty close. It's when they are jittery that they miss, and they miss badly. 

 

This takes away the 1 shot certain fight ender, and replaces it with a 1 shot maybe fight pause-er. So maybe in theory it's more likely to get that pause if everyone is in the right range.

 

Let's look at what happens if someone is further away.

 

-I'm also extremely skeptical about the designer's claim that it is as accurate as conventional JHP. Really? Which ones? Closely machined single material bullets are hard to balance perfectly and he's claiming to have acheived this in a way that must be by both dynamic balance and by aerodynamics. Let's count how many parts have to be made perfectly and assembled perfectly: 3 segments. 3 tethers 1 core plug thing. maybe a gas check shaped cap holding them together. (his video said parts were simplified or omitted, and that part would probably be necessary to hold the package and get gas seal.) so 7 shown parts, and realistically 8 and maybe even an adhesive. This is assuming none of those parts fails to open or breaks loose. If they are one part, that breaks, He's also claiming they shear perfectly every time too. He's saying that performs as consistently  as 1 piece of lead swaged or sintered into one piece of copper and trimmed. Precision shooters even reject the occassional barnes lathe turned or roll swaged solid copper projectile. Remember, the further an imperfection is from the radius of a spinning object, the greater its effect is magnified. People reject projectiles for imperfections on a 3mm radius, and his has all the weight at ~14"... You do the math, because it's over my head there, but I know it's a logarithmic escalation. He also claims that it retracts by aerodynamic force to a smaller group. So then the shards are flagging dragging their tethers, and presumably tumbling to base forward. No doubt all this happens exactly as consistenly as a JHP goes straight with no transition. - I'm probably crazy for thinking those little petals would want to flutter around like maple seeds once the spin isn't holding them in tension. They are probably a very low drag coefficient too, right? That slippery shape just retains velocity like nobody's business. (hmm, I can't find the option to format text in Sarcastica Bold.) I'd be willing to bet that his shop has less than 5 people total, and that these are assembled by hand in a couple jigs to wind the cord and snap the pieces together. All with unparalleled precision. This guy says he knows how to put all the physics together. He must be a genius.

 

So you realistically have less ability to ensure a hit (on the Assailant anyway) after a fairly close range. You also have less ability to aim around cover, or other things and people. Think about that guy in the clackamas mall. He couldn't be sure of one clear shot due to the crowd. Where is he going to find a clear 14" line that probably isn't so straight after 15'? So you have a narrower window to be sure of your shot too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Might be good for Wabbits, no ducks, Wabbits, ducks, WABBITS, DUCKS, WABBITS, DUCKS.... FIRE!!!!!!!

 

Wait wut.

 

Oh yeah, for defense I think I'll stick to JHPs but they could be fun for grouse and such. Question is at what price point?

Link to post
Share on other sites

He does claim that with even one hit of the three fragments, the other two will re-vector towards the center.

 

I could see maybe having this as the top round in the mag or the one in the pipe with the rest of the mag being normal defensive rounds.

It may be fairly effective inside of the 20ft range it's meant for.

 

I'd like to see some gel testing on this too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

gimick.  It has been shown that bullets that break apart inside the target dont penetrate as far and do less damage then a JHP that penetrates and expands. And here we have a bullet that breaks apart right out of the barrel. Stick with quality JHP.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...