Delron/Delrin gas piston puck whatever for a saiga 12, opinions?

[Billybobf 50]

Edit: the brand on my neck has chenged my mind! Too hot to try

 

Ok so I know that super hard steel is the norm for this part. But I've gotta ask why? Bolts are normally super hard too but the USAF ZIP gun (22lr) the bolt is delron, it shows wear after 5000 rounds but still.

Anyways a self lubricating, shock absorbing, blah blah blah. I'm thinking about making a couple. But if this made the gun function smoother and could allow other contact parts to last longer I'm totally up for it, even if I need to replace it every 500 rounds I'd still love it. What's your thoughts? If I make one and 30 rounds later its not working no big deal.

 

 

Edit: the brand on my neck has changed my mind!!! Too hot to try it

Edited November 26, 2013 by Billybobf

[Matthew Hopkins 1,065]

well. I certainly wouldn't go for something that  would need to be  replace ever 500 shells. just doesn't make a lick of sense to have something like that.  the current  puck and gas tube on the S12,  would more then likely outlast you.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Matthew Hopkins

[Billybobf 50]

For all I know it will last 10k rounds! Add reliability? Who knows, won't know til I try

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

I made one out from a piece of Nitronic50. It's oversized by .070 thousands length. It's held up through about 1,000 rounds with no discernible wear.

[Billybobf 50]

But still talking plastic vs steel, guess worst case I put it in for a box of ammo and see how it does

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

But still talking plastic vs steel, guess worst case I put it in for a box of ammo and see how it does

Oh, right. I don't think the 22lr bolt is exposed to the same temperature levels as the Saiga12 puck.

[Billybobf 50]

Yup yup, still think I might try it?

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Worst case scenario you'll have a lot of cleaning to do on your gas block/ports. However there is something to be said for the decreased mass. I'm suspecting you'll have decreased reliability.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Try it, see what happens, document it. Doubt anything bad besides a bolt action shotgun being the worst case scenario.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Pretty sure it's going to get sandwiched out and jam up after a few rounds - but I'd sure like to see it tried!

[gunfun 3,931]

The zip gun is hardly an item I would hold up as a standard of quality.

 

I think the delrin will get beat up. I could be wrong though. It is easily chewed up, so you'd need to be careful that the threads in the gas block don't scuff it as you put the puck in.

 

It's hard to see the point though. the standard puck, and the hardened stainless replacents do fine and show no appreciable wear or peening. The mass they have does not impede function. Maybe getting rid of the clunk when the gun shifts could be an advantage, I guess.

[Billybobf 50]

It's mostly a test, we use delron all over our sandrail shop. Seen a million items made out of the stuff. A tighter fitting plug, that self lubricates. Lower mass. Could make it quieter. It could do three things, pass the test and improve gun function, pass the test and reduce gun function, or the umbrella, a quick fail where all other results don't matter.

 

Safety, as long as I check for full lock up. Worst case it's a bolt action gun.

I think it would take more then a few rounds to hurt the puck and especially to damage the gun.

 

Worst case, puck seizes and prevents lockup, gun becomes a straight blowback shotgun. For this reason I will take one shot at a time for first five rounds, inspect puck, five round burst, inspect puck, then repeat til she gets warm. Coul do it will increased safety equip. I don't think the puck an prevent the bolt from a closed chamber, but would test that first.

 

On a side note, hmmm plastic hull shotgun shells, you can fire hundreds of rounds through this gun, let it chamber the last round and then park it just like that without any issues, I would think the chamber would be hotter then the gas block and puck

[sunnybean 939]

I'll be intrested in seeing the results. My guess is the op rod will peen the rear face very quickly.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

The zip gun is hardly an item I would hold up as a standard of quality.

 

I think the delrin will get beat up. I could be wrong though. It is easily chewed up, so you'd need to be careful that the threads in the gas block don't scuff it as you put the puck in.

 

It's hard to see the point though. the standard puck, and the hardened stainless replacents do fine and show no appreciable wear or peening. The mass they have does not impede function. Maybe getting rid of the clunk when the gun shifts could be an advantage, I guess.

I was thinking the mass they have is probably necessary for function.

[Billybobf 50]

It's possible it's all about timing, lighter plug for lighter loads? Tungsten plug for 3" super loads? But it's an area where I am confident that as long as I verify lockup after each shot I can pull the trigger for the next test fire

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

It's possible it's all about timing, lighter plug for lighter loads? Tungsten plug for 3" super loads? But it's an area where I am confident that as long as I verify lockup after each shot I can pull the trigger for the next test fire

Now this is purely a guess, but I think the tungsten will crack/chip from that kind of abuse.

Also I don't recall anybody having issues with the pucks breaking from 3" loads, op rods however are another story.

[patriot 7,197]

If you want the puck to be self-lubricating, then brass might be the way to go, with annular lightening cuts.

Still, you're re-inventing the wheel.

[Billybobf 50]

Yes but I have the delron and it will take me minutes to make a prototype and will be fun to test!

[patriot 7,197]

Delrin gets gooey when heated. I hope you're prepared for a cleanup!

[gunfun 3,931]

Brass would definitely get hammered out of shape by the op rod. Delrin might just absorb the impact.

Another downside of delrin not listed is that it tends to absorb oils and expand. 

 

A lot of paintball guns use tight fitting delrin bolts to eliminate cyclic mass and o-rings. People would use oil to help the seal, or because they thought more lube is better (despite the fact that delrin was chosen for that property) Sometimes the bolt would expand a thou or two and render the gun inoperable until it was driven out and sanded down.

[Billybobf 50]

There's a thought, when and where do I lube my s12

And how much

[gunfun 3,931]

Lube system- Plug the end of the barrel. Fill with cosmolene and allow it to cure for 40 + years. I hear this does wonders for extending the life of firearms.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Others will shout that you should keep the gas block wet or dry. Putting the wrong fluid in there will fuse with powder to make mud which gets baked on. some fluids seem to be OK, and dry doesn't seem to hurt anything either. I sometimes put a bit of CLP in there. 

 

IMO- a bit of grease on the BCG rails is good, but not much more is needed. I basically oiled then wiped dry when I lived in a dusty area: lube attacted dust and made more friction than no lube. Now I put a bit of teflon grease on the rails and call it good.

[Billybobf 50]

I live in coastal oregon, I was thinking just Remington spray with Teflon. Soak it down and then air nozzle off? I will be using the weapon in the sand dunes too. So water with ducks sand with coyotes and deer, brush with elk possibly

[gunfun 3,931]

People here may disagree. I think if you generally keep it clean, you will be paying enough attention to see what is working for you. There's lots of right answer to that particular question. Pretty much if you keep the gas block from crusting solid with powder this gun will run no matter how much you neglect it. I'm not advocating neglect, just saying that there is no single right way so use your own judgment.

 

The thing I learned was to keep my gun cases closed while out shooting, because I could put the gun away clean and find that the foam cells in the case were full of sand and would transfer it to my guns. Also, open them up in the house if you take the guns shooting in cold weather. I had a cold NEF shotgun in my cases that condensed moisture, which absorbed into the foam and made a light patina. I'd put it into the case dry. All of that could be irrelevant for your area.

 

The first few seconds of this show the factory reccomended procedure if you want to keep your warranty!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jugmbARIVtM&list=FLokyEtnWCHKnIfs3bRX7QLw&index=48

[Billybobf 50]

I have a dehumidifier running in my closet where the cabinet is, after use I normally leave the cabinet open for a bit. Cases are for transport not storage.

 

I was talking lube for the whole gun though, no manual with mine, came with 710 bottle but no directions

[gunfun 3,931]

I like super lube teflon grease for the rails and a bit of CLP to clean out the gas block.

[Billybobf 50]

Sounds good

[Billybobf 50]

Ok, 250 rounds later with a home built steel puck and a brand from leaning the gun on my shoulder while loading a mag has changed my mind on. That thing gets hot.

I'm just glad my wife was watching that way she believes the hickey came from my gun!!!

[gunfun 3,931]

Sounds good.

[Billybobf 50]

Bought a pair of tapco pucks and hammers, one for me one for the wife, hope the hammers work on the stock saiga crap trigger assembly