Milled AKs

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Time has come to make the jump to a milled AK, been promising myself I would when I could for a long time and now is it.

 

Looking at the American made CAI Centurion 39, everything about it I have seen is positive and the price is good.

The rifle is completely American made and since I no longer own any corrosive ammo the lack of a chrome barrel is not much of a concern.

 

Also the Atlantic... more goodies a lot more money.

 

So far if I cant find an overwhelming reason not to, the C39 looks to be what I have been waiting to buy.

 

Feed back if any have either would be appreciated.

 

Picking up a drum too, Romy, guess ya gotta have one.

[mancat 2,368]

Pretty sure it's not 100% US made, as several reviews have pointed out mismatched numbering on stamped parts. But the main parts are US-made. Keep in mind it only has to be 922r compliant to claim to be US-made.

 

The only thing I don't really like is some components stray from usual AK blueprinting and look a little "odd" as a result.

 

Some say fit & finish is good, some OK, some poor - i.e. the usual. Haven't seen one in the flesh myself so I cannot say.

Edited December 21, 2013 by mancat

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Correctable issues, minor at least, dont bother me too much as I wont leave them alone any way. Everything will get polished and touched up.

 

A lot of comments about CAI stem from the bad situation with kits for stamped AKs, I dont think there was any getting around that, send thanks to Uncle Sam.

[LuPiN8oR 333]

If i were to go after a milled ak CAI would be the last option on the table for me. May as well pick up a milled arsenal or wait till a really good quality one shows up.

[garnaz 215]

Look for a sam7k. If looking for a pistol.

Got a deal on one and got it.

[Redrum4u 125]

Arsenal

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

No pistols, not really a fan of those. I have that little niche covered.

 

I do request, and its only a polite request, if you are of a strong opinion at least link to the reason.

 

Now I would never touch a stamped CAI AK, reputation matters and exists for a reason, but this is a whole nuther ballgame.

Frankly I cant find any thing to say its not a good AK.

 

It would be great if those that owned one or the other could chime in.

[yakdung 2,926]

I own a milled SAM7 and purchased one when they were first released. I would suggest one.

[Redrum4u 125]

I own a milled SAM7 and purchased one when they were first released. I would suggest one.

^^^^ what he said.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I own a milled SAM7 and purchased one when they were first released. I would suggest one.

 

I assume you have experience with Saigas so what you see as the most significant difference?

[Redrum4u 125]

Well you'll want to baby it cuz it's so purdy

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Interesting

[Ruffian72 548]

Well, in 07. Purchased 2, "Vector" milled receiver built with unissued Bulgarian parts kit/chrome line barrel, 1 wood furniture, 1 synthetic furniture. Excellent workmanship, fit, finish, and ran flawless. Last Feb. was shooting (Wood), a guy at a range offered an outrageous price if I'd sell. So, sad ok. Other one had already gave to my niece. Also have a KTR-03 built by Krebs. Started as a milled Vepr. Have same model in Saiga/stamped receiver. Never weighed, yet can feel the "solid" factor. Did the same in the .308. These .308's were specked identical and built by Will at Red Jacket in 08/09. Vepr converted for Saiga mags. These you can also tell the difference when you pick'm up. Without looking you know witch one you are picking up.

[yakdung 2,926]

 

I own a milled SAM7 and purchased one when they were first released. I would suggest one.

 

I assume you have experience with Saigas so what you see as the most significant difference?

 

The milled Arsenal AKM/SAM-7 I own, is a quality build. It is the best of the variants I currently own. I paid $535.00 when it was first released, and I have seen them selling for over $1200.00 The milled SAM-7 has a very smooth action and is pleasant to shoot. I posted a pdf copy of a review on this site from Small Arms Review done years ago, and it describes the gun in detail better than I can.

Good luck,

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Thanks keeping it in mind.

[SaigaKen 338]

Love my SAM7R-61 and SAM7K from KVAR

 

Virtually no muzzle rise out of that rifle and accurate

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Not to piss in the Cheerios (honestly)...

 

<off-topic... shoot me, with something soft and fluffy, like cotton candy, if you must>

 

...but didn't the Soviets deem milled AKs a waste of time and material? Isn't that how we ended up with stamped receivers in the first place?

 

Nothing would excite me more than a full stainless AK (which is just about as silly as anything), but I'd still buy one! So I know where you're coming from in just wanting what you want.

 

This may not be the time or place, but I'm curious about your desire and I'd enjoy the education.

[yakdung 2,926]

^Yes. Weight for the conscripts to carry, time to built and cost. Just because it is stamped, doesn't make it a better product. A receiver made from a CNC'ed solid block of forged steel, is a better rifle IMHO. I would purchase several more milled AKM's IF and when the panic and gouging subsides from the current market. I will not be holding my breath.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Had a long conversation with a smith well versed on AK issues yesterday on milled AKs.

 

He pointed out the AK was designed to flex, you have seen the slo-mos, if one makes the rcvr rigid it places a lot of stress at certain points and the Russians found out eventually the thing will crack.

 

Of course that was under full auto fairly rough use. Stamped have their problems also in particular if the heat treating was sub-standard.

 

When the subject went to improved accuracy he confirmed it would improve with a milled AK... about 0.5MOA. Errr damn...

 

Still everything people say is true concerning how solid it feels so thats about the extent of it.

Yeah I still want one but not spending a lot more than stamped would cost.

 

Thanks for the replies folks.

[Ruffian72 548]

Stamped is fine, (no complaint) milled from solid stock is costly and takes more time.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Not to piss in the Cheerios (honestly)...

 

<off-topic... shoot me, with something soft and fluffy, like cotton candy, if you must>

 

...but didn't the Soviets deem milled AKs a waste of time and material? Isn't that how we ended up with stamped receivers in the first place?

 

Nothing would excite me more than a full stainless AK (which is just about as silly as anything), but I'd still buy one! So I know where you're coming from in just wanting what you want.

 

This may not be the time or place, but I'm curious about your desire and I'd enjoy the education.

 

Originally designed as stamped went to milled due to lack of welding tech for the rails. Milled displayed cracks at stress points so as soon as possible, 1959 I think, they went back to stamped.

 

Just looking for the better AK is all.

[haugpatr 972]

I think the centurions have a very odd bolt carrier, you should look into that.

[SaigaKen 338]

Had a long conversation with a smith well versed on AK issues yesterday on milled AKs.

 

He pointed out the AK was designed to flex, you have seen the slo-mos, if one makes the rcvr rigid it places a lot of stress at certain points and the Russians found out eventually the thing will crack.

 

Of course that was under full auto fairly rough use. Stamped have their problems also in particular if the heat treating was sub-standard.

 

When the subject went to improved accuracy he confirmed it would improve with a milled AK... about 0.5MOA. Errr damn...

 

Still everything people say is true concerning how solid it feels so thats about the extent of it.

Yeah I still want one but not spending a lot more than stamped would cost.

 

Thanks for the replies folks.

I have watched those same slow mo's

If you are shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds, imagine a minor defect could be found.

 

I think forged steel is the best....that "less flex" = somewhat better accuaracy and shot placement under multifire situations due to rigid barrel and less muzzle rise (with proper attachment)

 

I have inspected my bulgarian milled firearms meticuously and under a scope.....solid

 

Nothing wrong with a good stamped....have a few and doubt that there are many of us on this forum that have the cash for the amount of ammo that would require any type of meaningful breakdown in performance (short of barrel grooves)

[tim2shu 48]

Stamped yugo o-pap millied sam7sf.

[mancat 2,368]

The issues with milled receivers cracking were definitely a problem for Soviet and satellite arsenals. Mostly what I have read is that stress fractures occured around the locking lugs and carrier stop.. However keep in mind that their metallurgy was probably not all that great either. A modern milled receiver made in US or in present day Bulgaria is probably going to be quite a bit more durable than what was being made in the 50s.

 

Personally I prefer stamped AKs and don't really have much of a desire to own a milled version. I do regret missing out on the Century milled Polish M1960 a few years back, if only because they were such a great deal at just over $500, but I don't know that it would've been a rifle that I would LOVE, probably just another collection piece.

Edited December 22, 2013 by mancat

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

 

Had a long conversation with a smith well versed on AK issues yesterday on milled AKs.

 

He pointed out the AK was designed to flex, you have seen the slo-mos, if one makes the rcvr rigid it places a lot of stress at certain points and the Russians found out eventually the thing will crack.

 

Of course that was under full auto fairly rough use. Stamped have their problems also in particular if the heat treating was sub-standard.

 

When the subject went to improved accuracy he confirmed it would improve with a milled AK... about 0.5MOA. Errr damn...

 

Still everything people say is true concerning how solid it feels so thats about the extent of it.

Yeah I still want one but not spending a lot more than stamped would cost.

 

Thanks for the replies folks.

I have watched those same slow mo's

If you are shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds, imagine a minor defect could be found.

 

I think forged steel is the best....that "less flex" = somewhat better accuaracy and shot placement under multifire situations due to rigid barrel and less muzzle rise (with proper attachment)

 

I have inspected my bulgarian milled firearms meticuously and under a scope.....solid

 

Nothing wrong with a good stamped....have a few and doubt that there are many of us on this forum that have the cash for the amount of ammo that would require any type of meaningful breakdown in performance (short of barrel grooves)

 

 

This is also a good point, FA puts almost an exponential increase of stress on the receiver over semi given the "wave" motion from the last shot has not dissipated before the next round is fired possibly hitting a harmonic as things begin to stack up, that is the extent of my mechanical engineering background.  

 

Of course a blackjack on the rear of the rcvr would eliminate that problem but I use those anyway.

 

Will look into the bolt carrier also, thanks.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Rhodes1968

[thebuns1 4,323]

I think I'd look into the Vepr rifles. You'll get a heavier receiver and a barrel, and will get better accuracy with about the same weight as a milled AK.

 

The 2 milled AKs I've shot didn't give any noticeably better accuracy over a quality stamped rifle. The centurion just doesn't do much for me. YMMV.

[SaigaKen 338]

I think I'd look into the Vepr rifles. You'll get a heavier receiver and a barrel, and will get better accuracy with about the same weight as a milled AK.

 

The 2 milled AKs I've shot didn't give any noticeably better accuracy over a quality stamped rifle. The centurion just doesn't do much for me. YMMV.

You noticed better accuracy with a thicker stamped reciever, but none with a milled? Interesting.

 

I havent shot the Vepr, but my Bulgarian milled is much more accurate than my Saiga

[yakdung 2,926]

I poked around a bit on the net, and found the review:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33181723/SA-M7-by-Arsenal-Inc-this-is-Not-Your-Typical-AK47-The-Small-Arms-Review-Vol-6-No-2-November-2002

 

Bumped into this while doing the search above. Looks very interesting.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/08/07/introducing-the-arsenal-sam7sf-ak-47/

Edited December 22, 2013 by yakdung

[thebuns1 4,323]

 

I think I'd look into the Vepr rifles. You'll get a heavier receiver and a barrel, and will get better accuracy with about the same weight as a milled AK.

The 2 milled AKs I've shot didn't give any noticeably better accuracy over a quality stamped rifle. The centurion just doesn't do much for me. YMMV.

 

You noticed better accuracy with a thicker stamped reciever, but none with a milled? Interesting.

 

I havent shot the Vepr, but my Bulgarian milled is much more accurate than my Saiga

The Vepr was more accurate, and is vs. my SGL31 in the same caliber. I feel its the heavier barrel that made the difference in those areas. But milled should give you a slight advantage over a basic stamped. How much will vary on the weapon.