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Need an inexpensive concealed holster.....I dont wear belts.....

Packin Tee or Kangaroo Carry, use both regularly. 4+ years.  Kangaroo better with larger full size pistol. Each person has what they like. Both are quality for style holster they are. Do to vehicle harness system and other reasons, way I prefer to carry if being casual. Some offer cheaper, yet DO get what you pay for. Stay away from belly bands if being active other than upright position..

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Have you tried a cross draw? Seems like it would be less likely to come in contact with your rifle.

I used to carry my DE in .50 AE when I hunted, but it was mainly for hogs and cougars. Ive since switched over to my Glock 21. Its lighter, and holds more rounds, and I shoot it better. Its all prefer

Second firearm while hunting?   Of course you do, just like it is wise to carry a second firearm when going anywhere.   You could show your attacker, human or otherwise,  the law preventing such w

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Last year my dad was hog hunting and got rushed. First hit knocked the rifle out of his hand, then the pig backed up. Second charge tore a huge hole in his pants, inner thigh. Then his buddies got there with their rifles and killed it.

 

If he wasnt wearing two pair of jeans and backing away, that could have been a fatal gore.

 

Now he says he will never go out again without a big sidearm. If you have a rifle and find yourself needing to pull a handgun instead, by that point you probably need a big one.

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Many avid boar hunters use the 10mm, full loads. S&W 610 very popular in bear country. Heck, daughter carries a Glock 20 when deer hunting. It's when you least expect it, is the reason. Lay rifle down, field dressing or other events. Be glad to have.

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The glock 20 would be the way to go, the 21 would work fine with a 22 lb. recoil spring and 10mm parts in it, but the 20 will shoot alot of calibers including, 40, 357 sig, 9x25 dillon. The 21 can do 10mm, 45 super, and 460 rowland with a conversion.

 

Underwood 10mm will do the job all day and do it well.There 45 acp loads are awesome as well.

 

Either way keith warren and his buddy have taken whitetail numerous times with glocks in 45 or 10mm with factory extended barrels, 10mm if your venturing into bear country.

 

 

Exactly, the recoil spring is the key.  You don't want to batter the hell out of your pistol.  22lb isn't really my preference I usually would go with something stiffer.  I use a 22 lb in my .45 ACP Kimber 4in 1911.

 

If it can stand .45 Super and .460 Rowland, 10mm with a conversion barrel should not be a problem with the correct mags and a nice stiff recoil spring.  .45 Super and .460 Rowland is some heavy hitting stuff.

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You can get a Glock in .45 and get a conversion barrel for 10mm and shoot both .45 ACP and 10mm with the conversion barrel and 10mm mags.

 

 

I do not recommend this, for a couple reasons.  First, the slides of the 10mm Glocks are heavier than the slides of the .45ACP Glocks.  That probably won't matter much if you are shooting the 10mm "lite" loads, but for real hunting loads it's not the best idea.  Glock designed their 10mms with more weight in the slides for a reason.  Second, you may lose reliability due to the ejector block being different between .45ACP and 10mm.  Which again, is probably OK on the range, but not so good in a pistol you are counting on to protect yourself from dangerous predators. 

 

You can also buy a complete 10mm upper for your .45, slide and all, and replace the ejector block in the frame for a true conversion...  But by the time you have done all that, you may want to consider just buying a second pistol in 10mm.

I disagree. There is only about a 1oz. difference in the weight between the 20 and the 21, and the dimensions are the same on the slide. The only weight loss in the .45 I can see will be the material milled out for the larger barrel. Other than that it should be the same.

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I've taken deer with the M-11/9 due to a non-field clearable jam of my shotgun.  380-400 ft/lbs is more than enough to shoot through the ribcage of a deer with a 124 gr JHP.  They'll run about 50-75 yards and drop.  Wouldn't recommend it at any range further than 50 yards.

Around here, hunting large game with machine guns is illegal. Small game is still legit, though.

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The glock 20 would be the way to go, the 21 would work fine with a 22 lb. recoil spring and 10mm parts in it, but the 20 will shoot alot of calibers including, 40, 357 sig, 9x25 dillon. The 21 can do 10mm, 45 super, and 460 rowland with a conversion.

 

Underwood 10mm will do the job all day and do it well.There 45 acp loads are awesome as well.

 

Either way keith warren and his buddy have taken whitetail numerous times with glocks in 45 or 10mm with factory extended barrels, 10mm if your venturing into bear country.

 

 

Exactly, the recoil spring is the key.  You don't want to batter the hell out of your pistol.  22lb isn't really my preference I usually would go with something stiffer.  I use a 22 lb in my .45 ACP Kimber 4in 1911.

 

If it can stand .45 Super and .460 Rowland, 10mm with a conversion barrel should not be a problem with the correct mags and a nice stiff recoil spring.  .45 Super and .460 Rowland is some heavy hitting stuff.

 

 

24 is the most they sell for use with a glock 20, after that there is a chance the load may not cycle the gun, I run 22 lb. springs with +10 mag springs and have never had an issue and feel the actual recoil to be no harsher than 40 s&w in a subcompact pistol.

 

45 super and 10mm are neck in neck in terms of energy/ velocity and the upper bullet weights, but the super is only around 29000 psi versus 37,500 for most 10mm and probably up above 40k psi in some of the hotter custom loads, either way the will both get the job done but the 10mm offers greater penetration with its optimal sectional density. 10mm gets the advantage in handloading if your good, 180 gr. bullet  @ 1500 + fps is what I have seen out of handloads with IMR 800 x.

 

The 460 is in a league of its own and was intended to replicate 44 mag power out of an autoloader, 10mm and 45 super unless out of 6 inch barrels are more equivalent to a hot 357 mag.

 

10mm and 45 super for black bear or less, 460 for grizzly country as a solid backup, just my .02 if it was me.

Edited by dashowdy
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Picked up a decent "inside the pants" holster for $13 where I transferred the handgun

 

Have to check on the brand......works great for me

Thought you were requesting "No Belt" options.

 

RIght...no belt

 

It clips over the top of my pants

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Picked up a decent "inside the pants" holster for $13 where I transferred the handgun

 

Have to check on the brand......works great for me

Thought you were requesting "No Belt" options.

 

RIght...no belt

 

It clips over the top of my pants

 

Ok, my pants wouldn't stay up if I clip a holster/firearm to them without a belt. Something the world does not need to see. lol Holsters I mentioned work in all weather with minimal t-shirt/shorts to full clothing. If at a pool party or other warm weather event for a client, just look like "a big who isn't going to show skin", rather then "1st guy you need to take out".

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You can get a Glock in .45 and get a conversion barrel for 10mm and shoot both .45 ACP and 10mm with the conversion barrel and 10mm mags.

 

I do not recommend this, for a couple reasons.  First, the slides of the 10mm Glocks are heavier than the slides of the .45ACP Glocks.  That probably won't matter much if you are shooting the 10mm "lite" loads, but for real hunting loads it's not the best idea.  Glock designed their 10mms with more weight in the slides for a reason.  Second, you may lose reliability due to the ejector block being different between .45ACP and 10mm.  Which again, is probably OK on the range, but not so good in a pistol you are counting on to protect yourself from dangerous predators. 

 

You can also buy a complete 10mm upper for your .45, slide and all, and replace the ejector block in the frame for a true conversion...  But by the time you have done all that, you may want to consider just buying a second pistol in 10mm.

I disagree. There is only about a 1oz. difference in the weight between the 20 and the 21, and the dimensions are the same on the slide. The only weight loss in the .45 I can see will be the material milled out for the larger barrel. Other than that it should be the same.

 

 

A little bit of weight in the slide can make a big difference.  Here is a picture showing where a G21 slide has metal removed compared to a G20.  G21 is on the right:

 

G20LvsG21R_slides.jpg

 

Again, for shooting 10mm "lite" ammo (which is the vast majority of what you can find) at the range, no biggie.  For full power loads like you would be carrying in a backup handgun while hunting, probably not the best setup.  Then there are still the issues of the ejector block and the extractor being sized for the .45ACP case head.

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Thats what is great about glocks you can swap both of those for less  than 60 bucks, the critical components barrel, extractor, ejector block, magazine are for 10mm then it is a glock 20 essentially,, the weight of the 20 slide would be nice but I dont think it would really do any damage in the 45 either with a good 24 lb. recoil spring and a steel guide rod. A colt delta elite would be a nice option if dollars were not an issue or a dan wesson razorback in 10mm.

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In the old days hunting in brush country I used a 44 Ruger carbine and one of their 44 SAs for a backup. As I moved to different areas of the country and needed a longer range rifle I switched to different hand guns with the last one used being a .357 Ruger SA.

A small caliber hand gun would be fine if all you have to use it for is a coup de grace. I always viewed the handgun as a backup for failure of the rifle to work and wanted something I could bring the game down with if I was well with in range (very close). I’ve only shot 2 deer with a pistol first one after I hit it with a car and the other one walked into the hunting camp while I was getting a beer. Made me wonder why I’d spent all morning out in the woods.

One of the things to me to think about is how / where you’re going to carry the pistol. 1st of course what’s legal. Some places it’s not an option period and some specify minimum caliber. In some cases it has to be out in the open so you’re not carrying a concealed weapon.

The biggest problem I had was if I had the holster on the strong side it and the rifle banged into each other more than I wanted. I tried a shoulder holster, that didn’t work well for me so I went to a weak hand holster.

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In the old days hunting in brush country I used a 44 Ruger carbine and one of their 44 SAs for a backup. As I moved to different areas of the country and needed a longer range rifle I switched to different hand guns with the last one used being a .357 Ruger SA.

A small caliber hand gun would be fine if all you have to use it for is a coup de grace. I always viewed the handgun as a backup for failure of the rifle to work and wanted something I could bring the game down with if I was well with in range (very close). I’ve only shot 2 deer with a pistol first one after I hit it with a car and the other one walked into the hunting camp while I was getting a beer. Made me wonder why I’d spent all morning out in the woods.

One of the things to me to think about is how / where you’re going to carry the pistol. 1st of course what’s legal. Some places it’s not an option period and some specify minimum caliber. In some cases it has to be out in the open so you’re not carrying a concealed weapon.

The biggest problem I had was if I had the holster on the strong side it and the rifle banged into each other more than I wanted. I tried a shoulder holster, that didn’t work well for me so I went to a weak hand holster.

 

Good points.  I have the same issue when hunting, since i like a rifle with a sling (or shotgun).  A pistol in a strong side holster tends to bang around.  I can sling the rifle over the left shoulder, but like to trade off when doing a lot of hiking.  A big pistol in a shoulder holster isn't much of an improvement.  I have also tried a bandolier sling, carried in the front, & it's a bit better, as you can move it easier.  But in some ways, a smaller, cc weapon is a better solution.  I'd rather have my lcr in a pocket than a big 44.  

 

Mostly, it would depend on the situation.  I'f i'm quail hunting here in az, i don't worry about wolves or grizzlies.. vicious chipmunks & frightened coyotes are the biggest danger.  A 22 pistol is fine.  I suppose if i was hunting in alaska or africa, a big caliber revolver would be a good addition, but nothing i hunt here in n. america warrants it, imo.

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Second firearm while hunting?

 

Of course you do, just like it is wise to carry a second firearm when going anywhere.

 

You could show your attacker, human or otherwise,  the law preventing such wisdom, I am sure it will have predictable results.

 

Edit- Frankly I like the old style military chest holster now that Ive lost enough weight to wear the thing. Like having things up front. Whatever works.

Tote what you train with, caliber takes a back seat to skill.

Edited by Rhodes1968
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The 21 slide should be fine, given the number of conversion kits that have been sold. Unless there is a problem with the integrity of the slide. I do agree about the ejector and extractor, but they take 2 minutes to swap out so it's really not an issue IMO.

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In the old days hunting in brush country I used a 44 Ruger carbine and one of their 44 SAs for a backup. As I moved to different areas of the country and needed a longer range rifle I switched to different hand guns with the last one used being a .357 Ruger SA.

A small caliber hand gun would be fine if all you have to use it for is a coup de grace. I always viewed the handgun as a backup for failure of the rifle to work and wanted something I could bring the game down with if I was well with in range (very close). I’ve only shot 2 deer with a pistol first one after I hit it with a car and the other one walked into the hunting camp while I was getting a beer. Made me wonder why I’d spent all morning out in the woods.

One of the things to me to think about is how / where you’re going to carry the pistol. 1st of course what’s legal. Some places it’s not an option period and some specify minimum caliber. In some cases it has to be out in the open so you’re not carrying a concealed weapon.

The biggest problem I had was if I had the holster on the strong side it and the rifle banged into each other more than I wanted. I tried a shoulder holster, that didn’t work well for me so I went to a weak hand holster.

Have you tried a cross draw? Seems like it would be less likely to come in contact with your rifle.

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just had the same statement made by a friend who does that. I haven't hunted in years and being left handed back then holster selection was maybe a lttle harder to find some things that fit the gun and my needs. now days thanks in part to cowboy action shooting I could find a butt load of LH cross draws.

 

old holster on the left is the one I used hunting, kept it for playing cowboy games.

post-26137-0-34468000-1388448500_thumb.jpg

Edited by the 4th Doctor
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It is not permitted in some states.

Just got official confirmation for (PA) from Game Commision

 

Ken,

 

As long as you have a concealed carry permit, you can carry any handgun, including a semi-automatic, for protection only, not hunting.

 

Kindly,

bh@pgc

Taking a 5 hour course on the 15th for Utah Concealed carry permit.......allows me to carry in approx 39 states........

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You can get a Glock in .45 and get a conversion barrel for 10mm and shoot both .45 ACP and 10mm with the conversion barrel and 10mm mags.

 

I do not recommend this, for a couple reasons.  First, the slides of the 10mm Glocks are heavier than the slides of the .45ACP Glocks.  That probably won't matter much if you are shooting the 10mm "lite" loads, but for real hunting loads it's not the best idea.  Glock designed their 10mms with more weight in the slides for a reason.  Second, you may lose reliability due to the ejector block being different between .45ACP and 10mm.  Which again, is probably OK on the range, but not so good in a pistol you are counting on to protect yourself from dangerous predators. 

 

You can also buy a complete 10mm upper for your .45, slide and all, and replace the ejector block in the frame for a true conversion...  But by the time you have done all that, you may want to consider just buying a second pistol in 10mm.

I disagree. There is only about a 1oz. difference in the weight between the 20 and the 21, and the dimensions are the same on the slide. The only weight loss in the .45 I can see will be the material milled out for the larger barrel. Other than that it should be the same.

 

 

A little bit of weight in the slide can make a big difference.  Here is a picture showing where a G21 slide has metal removed compared to a G20.  G21 is on the right:

 

G20LvsG21R_slides.jpg

 

Again, for shooting 10mm "lite" ammo (which is the vast majority of what you can find) at the range, no biggie.  For full power loads like you would be carrying in a backup handgun while hunting, probably not the best setup.  Then there are still the issues of the ejector block and the extractor being sized for the .45ACP case head.

 

 

Pictures are not exactly worth a thousand words like they used to be.  Again what are the exact measurements for the two slides plus the tolerances?  Also there is the factor of the hardening that Glock slides go through as part of their nitrite ("Tenifer") process that makes it more resistant.

 

Again the recoil spring pretty much everything.  The angle of the ejector just means you are a lot less likely to have a casing fly back and kiss the outside of the slide (Ala factory made FAL). But if you're worried about the extractor, I've already heard of guys swapping those out too.  Just swap it and the extractor spring out to retain proper tension on the casing.

Edited by ShadowFire
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I dont know about Pittsburgh Pa area but here in the Phila Pa area there are no boars, a few and far between mountain lions, only stories of coyotes and 200-400lb black bears high up in the Pocono mountains who are currently napping. There are bob cats though, not many but they do show up from time to time. In 6 years of camping far out in the Pocono mnts I have seen 2. Around here you're more likely to get shot by another hunter then attacked by anything on 4 legs.  

 

So to answer your question, yes 7.62x39 is enough for a bear. Bears have been taken with 45acp so your Glock should be fine. You would most likely need either cal in fmj for penetration and more then one shot.

 

Didnt an Alaska man take down a bear with a mag of 5.45?

 

Most animals, even bears are very quite and a 400lbs black bear can sneak up on you as easily as a house cat. Has happened to our camping party twice. The first time he just sat there and watched us, for how long we dont know. A couple of rounds under his feet and a few over his head and he hauled ass back into the woods. The second time was a few years later when one of the party woke up early morning and saw a bear trying to getaway wit hthe bag of trash. A little yealling and he ran off. He walked through the whole camp site and no one heard a thing. Most of the time when a human and an animal meet its because it was an accidental meeting. Otherwise someone is stalking someone.

Edited by Arik
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I dont know about Pittsburgh Pa area but here in the Phila Pa area there are no boars, a few and far between mountain lions, only stories of coyotes and 200-400lb black bears high up in the Pocono mountains who are currently napping. There are bob cats though, not many but they do show up from time to time. In 6 years of camping far out in the Pocono mnts I have seen 2. Around here you're more likely to get shot by another hunter then attacked by anything on 4 legs.  

 

So to answer your question, yes 7.62x39 is enough for a bear. Bears have been taken with 45acp so your Glock should be fine. You would most likely need either cal in fmj for penetration and more then one shot.

 

Didnt an Alaska man take down a bear with a mag of 5.45?

 

Most animals, even bears are very quite and a 400lbs black bear can sneak up on you as easily as a house cat. Has happened to our camping party twice. The first time he just sat there and watched us, for how long we dont know. A couple of rounds under his feet and a few over his head and he hauled ass back into the woods. The second time was a few years later when one of the party woke up early morning and saw a bear trying to getaway wit hthe bag of trash. A little yealling and he ran off. He walked through the whole camp site and no one heard a thing. Most of the time when a human and an animal meet its because it was an accidental meeting. Otherwise someone is stalking someone.

Dont know the odds....but they are plentiful (this mall is 10 minutes from me and hunting area)

 

http://triblive.com/home/2249250-74/bear-authorities-dispatchers-store-frazier-mills-pittsburgh-baby-call-commission#axzz2p3ioYugA

 

http://triblive.com/home/2253510-74/bear-police-christian-mall-smaller-saturday-animal-commission-game-longhorn#axzz2p3ioYugA

 

They were prob after one of those tasty Chicken subs in the mall annex

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I live in bear, cat and wolf country and carry a revolver over my automatics because it's more dependable, can take more abuse and goes bang every time you pull the trigger. I have all sorts of auto loading pistols and could carry whatever I want and have. 

 

My good old GP100 .357 mag ruger can be used to pound tent posts, blow a wolf away or pierce the thick stinky fur of a pissed off bear that wants your gut pile. It's a little heavy but has great accuracy and is stainless so it could care less about the elements.

 

No matter how bad it gets abused, it always cleans up and shoots tight.

 

Have you ever had your auto loader jam on you when target shooting? If not you don't shoot enough. If so, that shit wont cut it when a bear is about to eat your family.

 

A 7.62x39 is a great round to shoot a bear with as long as you have a good barrel and sights. A pistol in that round would be a crap shoot. It would be a heck of a lot of weight and also a hell of a lot of gear to be swinging around out here if you were hunting elk. Your primary rifle will be considerable so the rest of your weight will go into spare socks, food and survival gear. You will have a better chance of hitting a charging animal with your pistol in a holster and using your front sight when shooting than imagining your pistol is a SBR. The pistol will probably make a lot of noise swinging around when you are hiking or in position. Your enemy may not hear that shit but the mighty bull elk will.

 

I'd leave it at home. I've killed everything that could kill you with that same round using a mini 30 and crusty old wolf hollowpoints. It's a good rifle round for whitetail, wolves, less than a hundred on an elk and anything short of a 444 marlin is a risk on a grizzly.

 

I've shot a lot of game with a .375 jdj. You should take your pistol out deer hunting as a primary when you are driving deer or pushing around in the swamp. Should be a good close quarters weapon to nail a spooked buck with. Nothing like nailing a big buck on the fly with a fucking magnum pistol.

 

Good luck!

 

N

NW Montana Rocky Mountains

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I live in bear, cat and wolf country and carry a revolver over my automatics because it's more dependable, can take more abuse and goes bang every time you pull the trigger. I have all sorts of auto loading pistols and could carry whatever I want and have. 

 

My good old GP100 .357 mag ruger can be used to pound tent posts, blow a wolf away or pierce the thick stinky fur of a pissed off bear that wants your gut pile. It's a little heavy but has great accuracy and is stainless so it could care less about the elements.

 

No matter how bad it gets abused, it always cleans up and shoots tight.

 

Have you ever had your auto loader jam on you when target shooting? If not you don't shoot enough. If so, that shit wont cut it when a bear is about to eat your family.

 

This can be said for a semi auto as well.

 

Ive never had any issues with my semi autos vs. my revolvers. Either of them could fail at any time. If I can trust my life to one or the other for daily carry from two legged critters, Im damn sure going to against 4 legged ones.

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Pictures are not exactly worth a thousand words like they used to be.  Again what are the exact measurements for the two slides plus the tolerances?  Also there is the factor of the hardening that Glock slides go through as part of their nitrite ("Tenifer") process that makes it more resistant.

 

Again the recoil spring pretty much everything.  The angle of the ejector just means you are a lot less likely to have a casing fly back and kiss the outside of the slide (Ala factory made FAL). But if you're worried about the extractor, I've already heard of guys swapping those out too.  Just swap it and the extractor spring out to retain proper tension on the casing.

 

Hey, use what you want.  If you are comfortable with it, you are comfortable with it.  I do carry a G20 into areas where I might need to use it on large animals in an emergency, and I would not personally want a converted G21 without doing a full conversion of the complete upper and ejector block.  Knowing the differences, the OP can now make an informed decision on how important that is to him.

 

Didnt an Alaska man take down a bear with a mag of 5.45?
 
Yeah but...  I think it was in the neighborhood of a dozen shots, not a mag full.  And while he did kill it, he certainly did not STOP it all that quickly.  It moved about 100 yards mostly under its own power (downhill) before it collapsed and died.  Fortunately for the shooter, it decided that it didn't want to kill a man that day, after all, and it ran AWAY from him instead of towards him.  It could have still ended very badly for the shooter.
 

 

I live in bear, cat and wolf country and carry a revolver over my automatics because it's more dependable, can take more abuse and goes bang every time you pull the trigger. I have all sorts of auto loading pistols and could carry whatever I want and have. 

 

That's 100% true.  But it's also true that when a revolver does go down, it usually goes down HARD.  So, somebody choosing a revolver based on your logic should be every bit as picky about getting a quality piece, and maintaining it spotlessly, as a guy with an automatic should be.  Which I am sure you are, but there are lots of guys who don't maintain their revolvers, and yet continue under the delusion that they can count on the overall increased reliability of a revolver.

 

Edit to add:  I have had exactly two firearms that have needed to go back to the factory for repair in about 30 years of shooting.  Both have been revolvers.

Edited by Netpackrat
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I prefer revolvers for some things but generally use semi-autos for competition. One thing is I’ve never had anything like a 10mm or 44 auto-mag so in my mind the revolver has the power factor I’d be looking for in bringing down game.

As far as reliability of one or the other it’s a toss up, I’ve had damn few failures out of either and 99.99% of those started with my reloads. One thing I do like about revolvers is usually if the gun goes click you can pull the trigger again faster than you can rack the slide to get a 2nd chance at a bang.

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Right about how infrequent failures are on both but when a wheel gun fails, non-ammo, it is usually fairly drastic and you are left with a rock. 

 

At that point in comparison racking a slide or dropping the mag looks pretty good.

 

So its still a toss up.

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