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S12 won't run


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Ok so I put this off as long as possible because I know you guys get tired of the same questions but I'm at the end if my rope with this thing. Here's the details on the gun...

 

Started with a box stock S12 and converted it myself with parts from CSS. I added the Chaos full length quad rail, CAA grip, CSS low brass reliability kit including lighter spring, gas puck an 5 position gas plug. The FCG was moved back to where it was originally and I used the stock insert to add the adjustable stock. The trigger assembly is a tapco g2.

 

So it wouldn't run with the gas plug in any position, I did some research and found the gas block needed to come off. I pulled it off and found three holes the were about .072 and partially covered. I "D" 'd the gas block (possibly too much but everyone in my gas block repair thread seems to think its fine) and drilled the three holes to 3/32 (.092 equivalent). Reassembled the gun with the factory hammer, factory gas plug, factory spring, and factory gas plug. I polished everything I think rubs on something. I took it back to the range and have gotten about 5 shells to run in a row and then I get a stove pipe. I've tried three different mags, factory 5 round, SGM 10 round and MD 20 round drum. At this point I'm using the same federal bulk pack #8 for all testing. I've tried every combination of spring/plug/puck with no luck. At this point it has the entire reliability kit in it and the factory hammer.

 

So all that being said is it as simple as drilling a forth hole for gas?

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Yes I ran some other hotter shells, I don't remember what combination was in the gun but yes they ran good. I have put about 600 rounds through the gun with the last 300 all being federal #8s. The spent shells that do eject are usually about three feet forward and to the right of shooting position. But this varies with the combination of plug/puck/spring.

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Put your factory spring back in it and try it with the factory hand guard back on it. Its relatively common for quad rails to bind up the action, completely robbing the gun of cycling power. If you don't have the factory hand guard anymore, put some thick gloves on and fire it without it.

You've changed a whole bunch of parts and now you need to eliminate all parts from the beginning to see if any of them are causing the problem. Take it back to as factory stock as possible, shoot it, see how it runs, then you can start changing parts....one at a time. You can even put the factory hammer back in as well.

 

Also, did you do anything to the G2 hammer, or install it as it came out of the package?

Edited by Mullet Man
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Yeah the stock G2 requires profiling... or you can beat it into submission with 3" mags. I did that on my first S-12, and its still to this day my most trusted for reliability.

 

Eventually the metal that needs to move for reliability will do just that. In the case of that gun the hammer indented into the trigger group giving the appropriate clearance. Yours is trying to do that, but more than likely hasn't gotten pounded enough. this creates increased drag and pressures on internals.

 

Profiling is the easier option if you don't love the feeling of violence when you pull the trigger as much as me. It can be done with a simple metal file if you have the patience.

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The link about trigger jobs has a few pictures of how you should profile your hammer. Take the spring out and cycle the bolt by hand holding it lightly with your fingers. you will notice that the G2 hammer has corners on it and goes up and down a lot. That robs energy going backward and on the way back forward. Ideally, the hammer would smoothly be pushed below the disconnector and stay motionless until the BCG moved forward of the hammer. A proper profile pushes it below the disco, with a bit to spare and minimizes wasted motions.

 

I would also probably add a fourth or even fourth and fifth holes if I were in your shoes. I'd start them way small since the 3 you have are pretty big. Some people do 4 holes at the size of your 3, so don't panic. Since you've read around, I assume you are using 3 dram equivalent ammo only for your testing.

 

Your gun is far from hopeless. It sounds like you've skipped the first two steps and done the oddball things. IMO you do the basic first steps of the hammer profile and adding at least one more port and you will be good to go.

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Ok made it back to the range. Put the gun back to stock puck/spring/gas adjuster and hand guard. Performs flawlessly. Put the chaos quad rail back on... Nothing. Every couple rounds I'd get a stove pipe. Took the top off and just had the bottom of the fire grip on and it functions flawlessly again. Full 20 round drums with no issues. So now I need to figure out how to get the chaos to work???

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Very few people have problems with them. There's a little hole on the side of the gas block to vent. Check if your rail blocks that. See if somehow the top rail is pressing the gas block down or sideways. You might have some binding.

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Ok, I did a bunch of research and fiddling with my chaos rail. It seems as though my gas block is slightly canted but is not touching the rail. I also found the installation instruction for the rail (Chaos really needs to package those WITH the rail?!?) and found that I hadn't filed the rear hole enough to keep it on a flat plain. Long story short, I think it's ready to go. I'll report back with what I find, hopefully I'll make it out before this weekend.

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Made it to the range yesterday. Gun is all factory gas parts again, G2 trigger that I profiled, polished internals and rails, converted, Chaos rail. Loaded up some #8 Walmart bulk (same thing I've tested with throughout) and was able to blow through about 300 rounds in 4 different mags and a drum without issue. I did have an occasional f up from a couple goofy shells but nothing I can't live with. Now to find a 20 gauge Saiga and start over! Thanks for the help to everyone that pitched in.

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On a business trip to Alaska I bought a Saiga 12 from a friend of mine, when I got back to Seattle I took it to the range and it would fire but not eject the spent shell. To make a long story short I sent the internals to Pauly in Portland Oregan and he polished them, today it's my most reliable fire arm.

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