bmfm64 2 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Ok so I put this off as long as possible because I know you guys get tired of the same questions but I'm at the end if my rope with this thing. Here's the details on the gun... Started with a box stock S12 and converted it myself with parts from CSS. I added the Chaos full length quad rail, CAA grip, CSS low brass reliability kit including lighter spring, gas puck an 5 position gas plug. The FCG was moved back to where it was originally and I used the stock insert to add the adjustable stock. The trigger assembly is a tapco g2. So it wouldn't run with the gas plug in any position, I did some research and found the gas block needed to come off. I pulled it off and found three holes the were about .072 and partially covered. I "D" 'd the gas block (possibly too much but everyone in my gas block repair thread seems to think its fine) and drilled the three holes to 3/32 (.092 equivalent). Reassembled the gun with the factory hammer, factory gas plug, factory spring, and factory gas plug. I polished everything I think rubs on something. I took it back to the range and have gotten about 5 shells to run in a row and then I get a stove pipe. I've tried three different mags, factory 5 round, SGM 10 round and MD 20 round drum. At this point I'm using the same federal bulk pack #8 for all testing. I've tried every combination of spring/plug/puck with no luck. At this point it has the entire reliability kit in it and the factory hammer. So all that being said is it as simple as drilling a forth hole for gas? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
read_the_wall 614 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Have you ever ran any hotter shells ? How far does the spent shells eject from the shotgun ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmfm64 2 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Yes I ran some other hotter shells, I don't remember what combination was in the gun but yes they ran good. I have put about 600 rounds through the gun with the last 300 all being federal #8s. The spent shells that do eject are usually about three feet forward and to the right of shooting position. But this varies with the combination of plug/puck/spring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
read_the_wall 614 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 With a 3 foot throw on spent shells, I would look at other possible issues. It seems like maybe the puck is sticking....???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmfm64 2 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 I've cleaned both pucks and ran a bore snake through the gas chamber to make sure all is cleaned. If you shake the gun you can hear the puck rattle back and forth seemingly somewhat free floating?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Put your factory spring back in it and try it with the factory hand guard back on it. Its relatively common for quad rails to bind up the action, completely robbing the gun of cycling power. If you don't have the factory hand guard anymore, put some thick gloves on and fire it without it. You've changed a whole bunch of parts and now you need to eliminate all parts from the beginning to see if any of them are causing the problem. Take it back to as factory stock as possible, shoot it, see how it runs, then you can start changing parts....one at a time. You can even put the factory hammer back in as well. Also, did you do anything to the G2 hammer, or install it as it came out of the package? Edited December 29, 2013 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmfm64 2 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 I installed the G2 as it came from the package. Once I realized it would need some profiling I went back to the factory hammer to eliminate that as an issue. I will reinstall the factory hand guard and see what happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Yeah the stock G2 requires profiling... or you can beat it into submission with 3" mags. I did that on my first S-12, and its still to this day my most trusted for reliability. Eventually the metal that needs to move for reliability will do just that. In the case of that gun the hammer indented into the trigger group giving the appropriate clearance. Yours is trying to do that, but more than likely hasn't gotten pounded enough. this creates increased drag and pressures on internals. Profiling is the easier option if you don't love the feeling of violence when you pull the trigger as much as me. It can be done with a simple metal file if you have the patience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 The link about trigger jobs has a few pictures of how you should profile your hammer. Take the spring out and cycle the bolt by hand holding it lightly with your fingers. you will notice that the G2 hammer has corners on it and goes up and down a lot. That robs energy going backward and on the way back forward. Ideally, the hammer would smoothly be pushed below the disconnector and stay motionless until the BCG moved forward of the hammer. A proper profile pushes it below the disco, with a bit to spare and minimizes wasted motions. I would also probably add a fourth or even fourth and fifth holes if I were in your shoes. I'd start them way small since the 3 you have are pretty big. Some people do 4 holes at the size of your 3, so don't panic. Since you've read around, I assume you are using 3 dram equivalent ammo only for your testing. Your gun is far from hopeless. It sounds like you've skipped the first two steps and done the oddball things. IMO you do the basic first steps of the hammer profile and adding at least one more port and you will be good to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmfm64 2 Posted December 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Sorry guys, I got some bad news yesterday and had to fly out. I'll be back Thursday to get this back on the road. Thanks for all the responses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmfm64 2 Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ok made it back to the range. Put the gun back to stock puck/spring/gas adjuster and hand guard. Performs flawlessly. Put the chaos quad rail back on... Nothing. Every couple rounds I'd get a stove pipe. Took the top off and just had the bottom of the fire grip on and it functions flawlessly again. Full 20 round drums with no issues. So now I need to figure out how to get the chaos to work??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Awesome. Sell it lol. Kidding, search chaos quad rail, there are topics with fixes for it. I'm no help there, I've never used one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmfm64 2 Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ok thanks I'll head home and start searching! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 So much for that "very dangerous" over filed gas block talk that's being regurgitated around here lately, huh? Good luck, chaos rails are suppose to be the best on the market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Very few people have problems with them. There's a little hole on the side of the gas block to vent. Check if your rail blocks that. See if somehow the top rail is pressing the gas block down or sideways. You might have some binding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmfm64 2 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ok, I did a bunch of research and fiddling with my chaos rail. It seems as though my gas block is slightly canted but is not touching the rail. I also found the installation instruction for the rail (Chaos really needs to package those WITH the rail?!?) and found that I hadn't filed the rear hole enough to keep it on a flat plain. Long story short, I think it's ready to go. I'll report back with what I find, hopefully I'll make it out before this weekend. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmfm64 2 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Made it to the range yesterday. Gun is all factory gas parts again, G2 trigger that I profiled, polished internals and rails, converted, Chaos rail. Loaded up some #8 Walmart bulk (same thing I've tested with throughout) and was able to blow through about 300 rounds in 4 different mags and a drum without issue. I did have an occasional f up from a couple goofy shells but nothing I can't live with. Now to find a 20 gauge Saiga and start over! Thanks for the help to everyone that pitched in. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 On a business trip to Alaska I bought a Saiga 12 from a friend of mine, when I got back to Seattle I took it to the range and it would fire but not eject the spent shell. To make a long story short I sent the internals to Pauly in Portland Oregan and he polished them, today it's my most reliable fire arm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gabec35139 0 Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 The problem is your barrel, gb and the ports are off. Send it to icc for a new barrel. Problem solved Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 The problem is your barrel, gb and the ports are off. Send it to icc for a new barrel. Problem solved Is that what the problem is? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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