Saiga 12 Lubing questions

[Liqdzero 0]

Hi everyone. I'm a new Saiga owner and have seen so many different ways to "properly" lube the gun after cleaning. I have yet to see, actually see a pic, of what to and what not to lube.

 

What parts do I lube, how heavy, and what brand?

 

I'm pretty new to guns so any pics of where to apply the lube would be great! A gun smith in my local area told me to just cover it in wheel barring grease because the "AK needs to run wet".. That cannot be right?

 

Anyone know where I can buy a replacement barrel for the Saiga? I think law in CO is 16"

 

Thanks in advance everyone

 

Jay

Edited December 30, 2013 by Liqdzero

[Billybobf 50]

Federal law on shotgun is 18" without a tax stamp! It would be way cheaper to cut down your barrel but if you have a 19" barrel is it worth the effort to make it an 18"?

 

If your going tax stamp then your looking at state laws after tax stamp! Then look into barrels and shorter gas tube and op rods if needed

And subscribed for responses on lube recommendation

[EthanM 514]

I just make sure it's really clean and put a little oil on the bolt/bolt carrier. I don't run mine wet and it functions 100% completely dry. I also don't put any oil on the gas plug or puck. Most of my ak rifles only get cleaned about every 1000 rounds unless I shoot some corrosive ammo.

Federal law on shotgun is 18" without a tax stamp! It would be way cheaper to cut down your barrel but if you have a 19" barrel is it worth the effort to make it an 18"?

If your going tax stamp then your looking at state laws after tax stamp! Then look into barrels and shorter gas tube and op rods if neededAnd subscribed for responses on lube recommendation

Correct. The only way you can get the barrel shorter without a stamp is to permanently attach a muzzle device to bring the barrel's oal to at least 18"

[Liqdzero 0]

Federal law on shotgun is 18" without a tax stamp! It would be way cheaper to cut down your barrel but if you have a 19" barrel is it worth the effort to make it an 18"?

 

If your going tax stamp then your looking at state laws after tax stamp! Then look into barrels and shorter gas tube and op rods if needed

And subscribed for responses on lube recommendation

Does the measurement start from the back of the chamber? When its empty the dowel I measure with is over 18

[Inspector 12 37]

As I have studied on lubing my Saiga 12 and AK 47 rifles I have learned that hi temp grease applied sparingly is preferable to oil due to operating temperatures. As Ethan notes, the gun should run dry and not need much lube but so far mine are still on the tight side and happier with a little grease on the slides where the bolt carrier rides and bolt cam where it moves in the carrier.

[brickfield mfg 86]

Depending on your location, no lube is sometimes your best option. If you live in the desert, I would not use any lube because it attracts sand and grit - essentially making something similar to lapping compound.

 

I generally use grease in the summer, and Breakfree CLP in the winter on all of my guns. Avoid using any sort of lube on pistons, or anywhere else gas would come in contact with the oil as it creates a hard to clean mess of things.

[Billybobf 50]

I just cleaned my gun before this outing, put some hoppes oil on all the bolt and carrier areas of friction, was so smooth, even cycled my low recoil Fiochi without problem, put 100 rounds through it, was a mess inside but still super smooth. Ride home somehow dumped a handful of sand in it, I will clean it, leave it dry, run it dry, unless I see reason to lube it, like a 100 plus round day or a low recoil day. 100 rd day lube for wear, low recoil line for reliability

[brickfield mfg 86]

 

Federal law on shotgun is 18" without a tax stamp! It would be way cheaper to cut down your barrel but if you have a 19" barrel is it worth the effort to make it an 18"?

 

If your going tax stamp then your looking at state laws after tax stamp! Then look into barrels and shorter gas tube and op rods if needed

And subscribed for responses on lube recommendation

Does the measurement start from the back of the chamber? When its empty the dowel I measure with is over 18

 

The legal measurement is from the face of the bolt in its closed position to the end of the barrel....

[YOT 3,743]

It's an AK. It will run with mud in it. That said, I wipe on a little Outer's Choke and Gun Grease on the bolt, bolt carrier, rails. and hammer face with either my finger tip or little foam make-up applicators that I get from my wife. The gas system should be run dry, except for a touch of anti-seize on the plug threads only.  

[Capt Nemo 882]

 

 

Federal law on shotgun is 18" without a tax stamp! It would be way cheaper to cut down your barrel but if you have a 19" barrel is it worth the effort to make it an 18"?

 

If your going tax stamp then your looking at state laws after tax stamp! Then look into barrels and shorter gas tube and op rods if needed

And subscribed for responses on lube recommendation

Does the measurement start from the back of the chamber? When its empty the dowel I measure with is over 18

 

The legal measurement is from the face of the bolt in its closed position to the end of the barrel....

 

From the tip of the firing pin to the muzzle.  At least, that's what it used to be.  ATF likes to play games so, keep it 18.100"+ to be safe! 

[brickfield mfg 86]

Firearm. (a) A shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; ( a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; © a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (d) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (e) any other weapon, as defined in this subpart; (f) a machine gun; (g) a muffler or a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition; and (h) a destructive device. The term shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machine gun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Director finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon. For purposes of this definition, the length of the barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked. The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.

 

 

 

When dealing with the ATF, it is always a good idea to go a little over what is written... you never know where THEIR tape measure was made! LOL!!!

Edited December 30, 2013 by 7.62m43

[yamadog35 28]

AK lube from AK guru Jim Fuller

 

Just ignore James Yeager and listen to Jim Fuller

[Billybobf 50]

I decided to wipe mine down with a rag, the sand did not get inside. Wiped the oil and gsr out ready for next run

[pedal2alloy 206]

 

 

 

Federal law on shotgun is 18" without a tax stamp! It would be way cheaper to cut down your barrel but if you have a 19" barrel is it worth the effort to make it an 18"?

 

If your going tax stamp then your looking at state laws after tax stamp! Then look into barrels and shorter gas tube and op rods if needed

And subscribed for responses on lube recommendation

Does the measurement start from the back of the chamber? When its empty the dowel I measure with is over 18

 

The legal measurement is from the face of the bolt in its closed position to the end of the barrel....

 

From the tip of the firing pin to the muzzle.  At least, that's what it used to be.  ATF likes to play games so, keep it 18.100"+ to be safe! 

 

 

As long as you are measuring accurately, 18.00" is legal.

[Yoshi 87]

I use a grease/oil combo usually a little over done.  Transmission fluid works well too.

[brickfield mfg 86]

I use a grease/oil combo usually a little over done. Transmission fluid works well too.

Funny you mention tranny fluid. The Russians like hydraulic fluid to lube their rifles...

[Sim_Player 1,939]

Grease will hold dirt so use it sparingly.

 

The first time I took my two Saiga rifles to the range I forgot to oil them.

 

They seemed fine so I went on to put a couple hundred rounds through each one, bone dry.

 

Everything had a fresh coat of paint. There was NO excessive wear on any of the parts. I was amazed.

 

Anti-seize on threaded shotgun parts is really good advise.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Sim_Player

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I generally run all my firearms, S12 included, well lubed.

 

On the S12 internals, bolt, bolt carrier, rails, safety and trigger group.

Metal on metal gets greased and wiped down leaving a light film.

All others simply get wiped down with an oily cloth, again light film.

 

Gas Systems

For the Saiga rifles, there just isn't anything in there that needs lube.

You'd just be baking powder residue onto the interior surface.

 

In the S12, my reasoning is excessive fouling.

Every time I open that up, it is already fouled enough with dry powder, carbon and wad fouling that I simply don't want to even think about adding any sort of lube into the mess.

Especially with those hot gases cooking it, I get nightmares of baked on sludge. Hard enough to get a fouled puck out as it is.

The only thing I use is a copper based anti-seize on the gas plug threads, thats about it.

[Capt Nemo 882]

Firearm. (a) A shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; ( a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; © a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (d) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (e) any other weapon, as defined in this subpart; (f) a machine gun; (g) a muffler or a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition; and (h) a destructive device. The term shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machine gun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Director finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon. For purposes of this definition, the length of the barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked. The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.

 

 

 

When dealing with the ATF, it is always a good idea to go a little over what is written... you never know where THEIR tape measure was made! LOL!!!

Then it's possibly local, with respect to the firing pin.  But 18.100" is still the safest length in any case.

As for lube, #9 in the bore and gas block, and CLP for everything else.

[soaoiogoao 3]

A little Gunslick Graphite lube on all friction points in the bcg.

[SICARIO 26]

I use Mobil 28 aircraft grease.  It's what Geissle uses on their triggers.  Awesome stuff

 

This is where i apply lube.  I also add grease to the rails and the front trunion where the bolt lug engages.

 

 

 

[unclejake 428]

People lube AK's??

[Sim_Player 1,939]

If your ak needs lube to work, you have a problem, somewhere.

 

I think that lube is more of a anti-corrosion thing in AK's.

 

Really, all of the friction points should be oiled, in any gun.

 

Keep oil away from the cartridge.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Sim_Player

[gunfun 3,931]

I've been greasing the rails lately, but when I lived in a dusty area, that seemed more like a way to make abrasive rouge inside my gun.

[Sim_Player 1,939]

Could lubing the rails increase felt recoil?

 

I'm just pondering.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Sim_Player

[gunfun 3,931]

I think placebo effect  combined with purchaser's bias accounts for the biggest portion of felt recoil claims. If your grease comes with a graph, costs $89.95 and claims 75% reduction, half your customers will say they got "only around 30%".

[kencrawleysc 11]

I use HBN spray (hex boron nitride) on my 8" Tromix S-17.

Probably not necessary, but I bought a case of the stuff.

http://www.lowerfriction.com

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

 

 

 

 

Federal law on shotgun is 18" without a tax stamp! It would be way cheaper to cut down your barrel but if you have a 19" barrel is it worth the effort to make it an 18"?

 

If your going tax stamp then your looking at state laws after tax stamp! Then look into barrels and shorter gas tube and op rods if needed

And subscribed for responses on lube recommendation

Does the measurement start from the back of the chamber? When its empty the dowel I measure with is over 18

The legal measurement is from the face of the bolt in its closed position to the end of the barrel....

From the tip of the firing pin to the muzzle. At least, that's what it used to be. ATF likes to play games so, keep it 18.100"+ to be safe!

As long as you are measuring accurately, 18.00" is legal.

Always leave a quarter inch.

The difference between 18.00" And 17.999999"is approximately ten years of ass pounding.

Edited January 30, 2014 by poolingmyignorance

[JESS1344 508]

GUYS,

   ONE CONSIDERATION WHEN USING GREASES ON HIGH FRICTION POINTS IS THE OUTSIDE AIR TEMPERATURE.

 

   I HAD AN UNFORTUNATE EXPERIENCE WITH THE PLASTILUBE WE USED ON THE MATCH M-14'S, WHEN I USED IT ON THE NATIONAL MATCH M-1911'S WE HAD ON THE DIVISION TEAM AT LEJEUNE.

 

   THEY BUILT THOSE MATCH GUNS SO TIGHT, SLIDE-TO-FRAME (TOO TIGHT REALLY, IN RETROSPECT) THAT NORMAL OIL JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE LUBRICITY TO KEEP THAT SLIDE MOVING AND AVOID STOPPAGES AND THE RESULTING ALABI RUNS, ON THE NATIONAL MATCH COURSE.

 

  I ENDED UP USING THE PLASTILUBE ON SLIDE-FRAME, BARREL-SLIDE INTERFACES AND IT WORKED VERY WELL.

 

   ALONG ABOUT SEPTEMBER OR MAYBE OCTOBER (IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AGO) WE TRAVELED OVER THE APPALACHIANS TO SOMMERVILLE WEST VIRGINNY TO SHOOT THE WEST VIRGINIA OUTDOOR STATE PISTOL MATCH.

 

   WELL, WHEN WE LEFT LEJEUNE, IT WAS PROBABLY IN THE HIGH 80'S, MAYBE EVEN THE LOW 90'S.

 

   WHEN WE GOT OVER THE MOUNTAINS TO SOMMERVILLE, IT WAS PROBABLY IN THE MID-UPPER 60'S (I REMEMBER WE WERE DIGGING OUT FIELD JACKETS).

 

   I WAS SET UP TO BE ON THE FIRST RELAY, AND THE FIRST STAGE OF FIRE WAS A 20 ROUND SLOW FIRE MATCH, FIRED AT 50YDS (THANK GOD, IF IT HAD BEEN TIMED OR RAPID, I'D HAVE BEEN SCREWED).

 

   THE COMMANDS WERE GIVEN, THE TARGETS TURNED, AND I LEISURELY BUSTED THAT FIRST ROUND.

 

   AS I DID SO, AND THE MUZZLE OF MY 1911 PITCHED UP A BIT, I HAD THE FULL VIEW OF MY SLIDE SLOOOOOOWLY SLIDING TO THE REAR, AND JUST ABOUT AS SLOOOOWLY RETURNING TO BATTERY; THE EMPTY BOUNCED OFF THE TOE OF MY RIGHT BOOT.

 

   I INSTANTLY KNEW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS, AND AS SOON AS THAT SLOW FIRE MATCH WAS OVER I WENT BACK TO MY VEHICLE AND SNATCHED THAT SLIDE OFF, AND USING Q-TIPS AND PIPE CLEANERS, I WIPED ALL OF THE PLASTILUBE VISIBLE, OUT OF MY 1911.

 

   I RELUBED IT WITH SOME STUFF THAT WAS NEW AT THE TIME (1977), CALLED TRIFLON; I THINK IT LATER MORPHED INTO TRIFLOW.

 

   SHORTLY AFTER I GOT OUT OF THE CORPS, I BECAME ACQUAINTED WITH SHOOTERS CHOICE PRODUCTS, FIRST BEING THEIR BORE CLEANER. THIS WAS LATE '80, OR '81.

 

   I LATER BECAME AWARE THAT THEY MADE A RED GREASE IN A PLASTIC HYPO.

 

   AS I WAS TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT HAD THE VISCOSITY AND LUBRICITY OF PLASTILUBE, BUT WITHOUT THE UNFORTUNATE CHARACTERISTIC OF THICKENING/HARDENING AT LOW TEMPS, I BOUGHT A TUBE.

 

   THE VERY FIRST THING I DID WITH THAT STUFF WAS TO SQUIRT A STAINLESS STEEL TEASPOON FULL OF THAT STUFF, AND PLACE IT IN THE DEEP FREEZE OF MY REFRIGERATOR FOR 24HRS.

 

   WHEN I CAME BACK THE NEXT DAY TO CHECK IT, IT WAS THE SAME THICKNESS AS JUST STRAIGHT OUT OF THE TUBE.

 

   I'VE USED IT ON ALL FIREARMS SINCE, IN AREAS OF HIGH FRICTION, SUCH AS PORTRAYED IN SICARIO'S EXCELLENT DIAGRAM ABOVE.

 

   I'VE BRIEFLY EXPERIMENTED WITH OTHER GREASES OVER THE YEARS SINCE, BUT HAVE ALWAYS QUICKLY RETURNED TO SHOOTERS CHOICE RED GREASE.

 

   AND YES, LOCTITE'S C5-A COPPER BASED ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT IS THE BEST FOR GAS PLUG THREADS, SAIGA'S OR OTHERWISE.

 

   JESS1344

[sccritterkiller 473]

I don't use any lube/grease on my AK platforms until they get at least 200 rds thru them....I want then to get broke in...after that they get a detailed cleaning with #9 then I use a very thin layer of grease in the areas outlined above..

Edited February 16, 2014 by sccritterkiller