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vepr 12 & catamount fury 2

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I don't have any pics on this.. maybe later.

 

I ordered a vepr 12 from classic on black friday, but the invoice fell behind the sofa & they had to make a new one, after i had waited a few weeks.  In the mean time, j&g sales had a sale on the catamount fury 2, & since i was in the area, i dropped in to look at it.  It looked pretty solid.. the action worked fine.. a bit stiff, but it seemed ok, so i bought it..  $400 vs  over $1k for the vepr seemed like it was worth taking a chance.  So i got to shoot the fury for a cpl weeks while waiting on the vepr to come in.  I smoothed up the action, & filed the impact areas on the bolt & bolt carrier.  It still doesn't cycle the 1oz cheap target loads, but everything else is fine.  When the vepr came in, i put on a hogue forend i had, & the css gk brake.  It also didn't cycle the light loads, but i didn't get these guns to shoot fluff loads, anyway.  I wasn't happy how the hogue forend fit, so put the factory back on, leaving on the pistol grip.

 

I took both of them shooting right after xmas, & tried different loads.  The vepr cycled a little better, but the bolt carrier was much smoother out of the box.  I had already polished up the fury, so it was a bit smoother, but the bolt head was stiff in the bolt, so that was something else that i would look at.  I worked a lot more on the fury, polishing up the mating surfaces, but still the bolt will not close by itself, if you slowly release it, whereas the vepr will.  I used moly lube on the mating surfaces & polished up every contacting surface.

 

Yesterday, i took them out again.  I shot several different loads, ranging from the cheap target loads to rio 00 buck, to 3" magnum #4.  Anything above the target loads cycled fine in both guns.  Here are the pros & cons of each.  I have 6 other shotguns, but was looking for a tactical shotgun with a large capacity magazine.  I briefly considered the keltec ksg, but the jury is still out on them, they cost a lot, & are hard to find.

 

Both fired everything, sights seemed a bit low for both, & both cycled the hotter loads faster than i could shoot.

 

Pros:

vepr 12:

1. solidly built. Hardened steel parts, tight machining.

2. no adjustment for light loads, shoots everything

3. chrome bbl

4. easy to add gk01 brake, much reduced recoil

5. excellent molot folding stock

6. came with 2-5 round mags, added 12 rnd sgm

7. single point sling swivel on stock

8. easily customizable with aftermarket mods.

 

fury 2:

1. cheap.. almost 1/3 of vepr.

2. cycles everything but light loads, can be smoothed up with minimal effort & cost.

3. decent skeletonized stock & forend

4. includes 3 screw in chokes.. full, mod, cyl.

5. came with 2-5rnd mags, bought addl 10 rnd factory.

6. No after market parts available.. odd sized bolt carrier, forend, & stock.. not ak compatible

 

Cons:

vepr12:

1. Pricey.  Most expensive shotgun for me, ever.

2. heavy.

3. no chokes.

4. proprietary mags, can't interchange with other platforms.

5. hard plastic grip & forend

 

fury 2:

1. rough machining & sticky bolt

2. steel bbl, 'lead shot only' stamped on receiver

3. add ons or mods will require gunsmithing

4. soft steel in bolt & carrier, impact areas dent & deform easily

5. heavy, but a bit lighter than vepr

6. no single point sling attachment.. narrow sling points at forend & buttstock

7. proprietary mags, can't interchange with other platforms.

8. have to change settings from light to heavy loads.

 

I already had the vepr ordered when i saw the fury on sale, or i might have not bought the vepr.  I also figured i could sell one, if i liked the other a lot better.  But this is almost a toss up, considering all the factors.  I'm glad i got the vepr, because it is a better made, better machined firearm that i can pass down for generations.  But the fury will probably function fine, too, & as long as parts are available for both, that should not be a problem, either.  If i keep the fury, i'll probably change out the stock for an ar type, or a folder, or both.

 

I originally planned to get a good recoil pad & a front rail grip, to handle the harder recoil.  I shoot 3.5" magnums in my waterfowl gun, & it kicks a lot!  I did not want that much kick in a tactical shottie.  But the molot clone brake, & the cycling action reduces the recoil to a manageable level, so i am not putting on a railed forend for a front grip, nor an additional recoil pad.  I also considered a holo sight, or red dot, but am satisfied with the stock sights.  If i use it for slugs much, i might try a quick remove holo on it.  But i have centerfire rifles for that purpose.  I'll try out slugs, & see how they shoot, but i don't plan on shooting them regularly in it.

 

I had low expectations for the fury, & high ones for the vepr, after reading all the reviews & orgasmic descriptions.  But reality is often less emotional & more boring.  Either of these would work as a good tactical shotgun.  There are pros & cons to both, & you get what you pay for.  But neither is an 'out of the park' homerun, & both are good values.  I'll probably keep both.  smile.png

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Not a very good comparison IMHO. The VEPR is way ahead of the Saiga much less the Fury! So when you spend the time and money getting it up to the standards of a Saiga S12 are you really saving that much? And what about re-sale value? Will you get a better return if you spend the extra money up front and just buy a S12?

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Not a very good comparison IMHO. The VEPR is way ahead of the Saiga much less the Fury! So when you spend the time and money getting it up to the standards of a Saiga S12 are you really saving that much? And what about re-sale value? Will you get a better return if you spend the extra money up front and just buy a S12?

?

this was just my thoughts on these particular firearms, after putting minimal rounds through them.  I made no claim about reliability, or longevity for either, nor was resale value a factor, as i have no idea about that.. i would assume you could not resell them for more than they go for new, & i would also assume you could resell them for nearly what they cost, since that seems to be the case for most firearms in the current market.

 

All i have read is high praise for the vepr, & demonizing of the fury... this is a less emotional review, based on actually handling & shooting the weapons in question.  I can't say the fury is a horrible weapon, & not worth $400.  IMO, it is worth the price.  You'd have a functional, semi auto shottie with a magazine.  I also think the vepr is worth the price.  it is much better made, & has extras right out of the box.  I will keep the vepr for sure, & the fury for a while.

 

Anyway, i'm not attacking anyone's sacred cows, or trying to sell anything or convince anyone of a particular viewpoint.  This is just one person's opinions about these 2 firearms.. take them with a grain of salt.

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Nice report good luck on the trial. I mounted a Hogue front HG on my Vepr took some dremmeling  though ! and i like it a lot more than the factory for it's tactile rubber feel .

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Not a very good comparison IMHO. The VEPR is way ahead of the Saiga much less the Fury! So when you spend the time and money getting it up to the standards of a Saiga S12 are you really saving that much? And what about re-sale value? Will you get a better return if you spend the extra money up front and just buy a S12?

?

this was just my thoughts on these particular firearms, after putting minimal rounds through them.  I made no claim about reliability, or longevity for either, nor was resale value a factor, as i have no idea about that.. i would assume you could not resell them for more than they go for new, & i would also assume you could resell them for nearly what they cost, since that seems to be the case for most firearms in the current market.

 

All i have read is high praise for the vepr, & demonizing of the fury... this is a less emotional review, based on actually handling & shooting the weapons in question.  I can't say the fury is a horrible weapon, & not worth $400.  IMO, it is worth the price.  You'd have a functional, semi auto shottie with a magazine.  I also think the vepr is worth the price.  it is much better made, & has extras right out of the box.  I will keep the vepr for sure, & the fury for a while.

 

Anyway, i'm not attacking anyone's sacred cows, or trying to sell anything or convince anyone of a particular viewpoint.  This is just one person's opinions about these 2 firearms.. take them with a grain of salt.

 

I didn't mean to put down your comparison, or this post, but I just don't understand why you wouldn't just spend the little extra and buy a Saiga. 

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Not a very good comparison IMHO. The VEPR is way ahead of the Saiga much less the Fury! So when you spend the time and money getting it up to the standards of a Saiga S12 are you really saving that much? And what about re-sale value? Will you get a better return if you spend the extra money up front and just buy a S12?

 

?

this was just my thoughts on these particular firearms, after putting minimal rounds through them.  I made no claim about reliability, or longevity for either, nor was resale value a factor, as i have no idea about that.. i would assume you could not resell them for more than they go for new, & i would also assume you could resell them for nearly what they cost, since that seems to be the case for most firearms in the current market.

 

All i have read is high praise for the vepr, & demonizing of the fury... this is a less emotional review, based on actually handling & shooting the weapons in question.  I can't say the fury is a horrible weapon, & not worth $400.  IMO, it is worth the price.  You'd have a functional, semi auto shottie with a magazine.  I also think the vepr is worth the price.  it is much better made, & has extras right out of the box.  I will keep the vepr for sure, & the fury for a while.

 

Anyway, i'm not attacking anyone's sacred cows, or trying to sell anything or convince anyone of a particular viewpoint.  This is just one person's opinions about these 2 firearms.. take them with a grain of salt.

I didn't mean to put down your comparison, or this post, but I just don't understand why you wouldn't just spend the little extra and buy a Saiga.

Because he already purchased the vepr? Seems he just got the fury for shits and grins because the price was cheap.

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I understand he had already purchased the VEPR, and bought the Fury 2 cheap, but was wondering why he didn't get a Saiga instead of the Fury 2. I think it would have been cheaper in the long run to have spent the extra money on the Saiga.

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Why do people buy RIA 1911s instead of colts? Toyotas instead of BMWs? Saigas instead of veprs? Mossberg instead of benelli? Browning vs Hi point?

This is a philosophical question I cannot answer.

 

If all I wanted was a cheap autoloader with mags, the fury fits the bill. Others can bash it if they want, but I think it would work for a lot of people.

I'm an aficionado, not an elitist. I've got cheap guns, & expensive ones. I like a well made weapon, & elegance, but I also like cheap & functional.. Isn't that what AK pattern firearms are about?

BTW, I haven't spent any extra money on the fury. After a bit of fluff & buff, it is quite functional.

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I am questioning your choice of the Fury 2 over the Saiga S12 - NOT comparing the Fury to the VEPR, because IMO that is an apples to oranges comparison. In your review, you listed the pros and cons with the fury - here is my opinion for what it's worth.......


 


fury 2:


1. cheap.. almost 1/3 of vepr.      As stated above - this is an "apples and oranges" comparison....  You mentioned "Toyotas instead of BMWs" - I am thinking more like Yugo instead of BMW here.      


2. cycles everything but light loads, can be smoothed up with minimal effort & cost.      N/A - many Saigas suffer from the same problem, and need to be "tweeked" to cycle light loads      


3. decent skeletonized stock & forend      Also offered on the S12


4. includes 3 screw in chokes.. full, mod, cyl.    A plus considering the 3 choke set for the Saiga is an additional $95


5. came with 2-5rnd mags, bought addl 10 rnd factory.      Additional 5 round mag is a plus, but additional magazines are in the same price range as Saiga mags


6. No after market parts available.. odd sized bolt carrier, forend, & stock.. not ak compatible      Should have been part of "cons" list


 


fury 2:


1. rough machining & sticky bolt      Can be smoothed out - not any big deal


2. steel bbl, 'lead shot only' stamped on receiver      Indicates soft steel used in the manufacture of the barrel


3. add ons or mods will require gunsmithing      As mentioned in #6 above - limits what you can do IF you decide to modify it


4. soft steel in bolt & carrier, impact areas dent & deform easily      Decreased service life from accelerated wear of soft steel


5. heavy, but a bit lighter than vepr      A matter of personal preference


6. no single point sling attachment.. narrow sling points at forend & buttstock      Common with Chinese AK's - use the Chinese slings with leather tabs on each end


7. proprietary mags, can't interchange with other platforms.      Not an issue if the OEM mags are well made, but does limit options (limited to 5 and 10 rounds and no drums available)


8. have to change settings from light to heavy loads.      Same as Saiga S12    


 


Now for my experiences that form my opinions....


Back in the early 90's I owned an AK that was an excellent rifle. It was an early Clayco import made by North China Industries (which later became Norinco), and the fit and finish on it was very nice by "AK" standards. I also owned a very nice little Czech BRNO Mdl.1  - a sleek bolt action sporter that the Chinese (Norinco) copied, and marketed as the JW-15. The BRNO was so nice, I decided to buy a JW-15 as more of an "every day beater" gun. With the good experience I had with the Clayco, I didn't think twice about  the purchase. But it soon became evident that the steel used on the JW-15 was soft, and the engagement surfaces of the trigger started to wear quickly -  eventually making it unsafe for field use. Upon investigating this problem, I realized that it was not limited to this model of rifle, and people who had purchased Norinco copies of the M-14/M1A were having problems with the soft steel as well. This experience is what raised a red flag when you mentioned the soft steel in the bolt and carrier! Those who had bought the Norinco M-14.M1As eventually had their receivers re-heat treated, and I believe replaced the bolts with USGI ones, but that was when those part were still cheap, and it was cost effective to do it.


 


I hope this sheds some light on the reasons why I am questioning your choice or the Catamount Fury 2 over the Saiga....


Edited by 7.62m43

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current prices on saiga 12.  650.00 and up unconverted.

 

catamount fury 399.00

 

for that price id buy one to mess around with. unless someone wants to point me to an s12 for the same price.

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current prices on saiga 12.  650.00 and up unconverted.

 

catamount fury 399.00

 

for that price id buy one to mess around with. unless someone wants to point me to an s12 for the same price.

 

FYI before the saiga 12 hype and the Red Jacket show, my buddy picked up his unconverted Saiga 12 for no more than $400.

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current prices on saiga 12.  650.00 and up unconverted.

 

catamount fury 399.00

 

for that price id buy one to mess around with. unless someone wants to point me to an s12 for the same price.

 

FYI before the saiga 12 hype and the Red Jacket show, my buddy picked up his unconverted Saiga 12 for no more than $400.

 

I paid $375 (very lightly used) for mine in 2009. Sadly for those who have a bunch of money invested in their conversions, the price is dropping on the S12 as more people are buying the VEPR 12 (which has dropped in price as well!). There was an IZ 109 that had been professionally converted to a 12C, with a 20 round MD Arms drum, that sold recently for $795.00 on another forum - a great deal IMO, which probably would have brought close to double that a year ago.

 

Edit - I found the ad, and it was a 12 round ProMag drum, NOT a MD Arms. And it included a Russian sling...

Edited by 7.62m43
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given the choice between a saiga 12 and fury, at the same price. its a no brainer saiga 12. so if i happen to find a s12 unconverted for 400.00 id get it.  i have noticed that converted s12s are getting cheaper. but unconverted arent.

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And I miss the days of my 525rd 22lr for $5.88 and that was just $10 years ago. Picked up the saiga 223 from legion for $550 out the door and in my name so I had something cheap to shoot other then birdshot, and readily available.

My saiga 12 was NIB second hand, I paid about $700 out the door, was very happy to find it as an iz109 from arsenal 4port and fully functioning. For the price difference I would totally buy the fury for a mall ninja gun and golf ball launcher. Be a great upland game gun! And truth be told I would shoot the right steel shot out of it

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I bought a rem 870 for $35 when I was 16, too. ;)

Exactly. So im probably going to get a fury1 convert it and shoot the piss out of it.

Edited by Vintovka Dragunova

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..not much more to say.. i don't shoot the fury as much.. the vepr is much smoother, less recoil, hits clay better, & handles the low power loads better.  No more than i shoot either of them, i will not wear them out.  But even though the  vepr was twice as much, i think it is twice the firearm.  The fury's bolt has a little deforming from impact, while the vepr is still hard & straight..  hmm... no jokes on that..  :)

 

I put a hogue tactile forend & grip on the vepr, modified slightly from an ak package.  The fury is still bone stock, & likely will stay that way, since few mods (if any) are even out there.  But it certainly is fine the way it is.

 

But the vepr with the hogue furniture, the factory folder, a css brake, & just a bit of fluff & buff is a fine shotgun.  I'll still shoot the o/u just to compare, but at my skill level, the vepr is just as good, & more fun with at least 5 shots.  I have a cheap spring thrower, & use it at the NF range, so i can load up the mag if i want.

 

I doubt i shoot the fury much, & if i get a chance to trade it, i probably will.  it is certainly ok, especially for the price, but it's like anything.  Why keep a cheap revolver if you have a nice smith or dan wesson?

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where did ya get the FURY 10 round magazines, I am having trouble locating a retailer.

I bought it at j&g sales in prescott, when i bought the fury.  Evidently, no one has them anymore.  As long as they sell the furys, i would think they'd ship more in, or at least an aftermarket vendor would make some  up.  The factory ones look good.. just like a factory vepr.  ..but they are not interchangeable.  Too bad they didn't just make it saiga or vepr compatible in the first place.

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  The fury's bolt has a little deforming from impact, 

 

 

Pics, please.

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where did ya get the FURY 10 round magazines, I am having trouble locating a retailer.

I bought it at j&g sales in prescott, when i bought the fury.  Evidently, no one has them anymore.  As long as they sell the furys, i would think they'd ship more in, or at least an aftermarket vendor would make some  up.  The factory ones look good.. just like a factory vepr.  ..but they are not interchangeable.  Too bad they didn't just make it saiga or vepr compatible in the first place.

 

 

 

I'd like to see pics of the bolt too.

 

Also, can anyone tell me if the carrier will fit a s12 receiver ?

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I'll try to get some pics up from the fury's bolt.. the problem is, the last time it deformed the bolt a bit, i smoothed everything up, filed away the deformation, & made it cycle a lot better.  So, until i shoot it a bunch more, it won't show anything on the pics..  :(

 

But!  I do have some pics of the finished vepr 12, & just in time for the import ban!  :D  On it are hogue pistol & foregrip, & the factory folding stock, & css brake.  The rest is factory.

 

vepr12.jpg

 

vep12rforegrip.jpg

 

I'll probably end up trading off the fury.. but i'm in no hurry, & it does work pretty good since i fluffed & buffed it.  I suppose with the russian ban, the furys will end up selling better.. the prices will shoot up on the veprs & saigas, & make the chinese guns look better.

 

As it is, i'm pretty happy with the vepr, & even bought a 308 to go along with it.

 

veprs2.jpg

 

That was stock, but with a few choice additions, it now looks like this:

veprsunfolded.jpg

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USFAN thanks for the time you took to inform all of us of your experience with the Catamount, I am hoping to find one of those at the 300 dollar range on Armslist so I can try one out. hopefully they drop a little more or have a package with mags so it can be more appealing for my liking.

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Alright.  It's about time i put up some eye candy.  ..especially since siagas & veprs are being banned, the fury might have to do as a tactical mag shotgun.  I'll put up some pics of the fury alone, & some side by side with the vepr, for comparison.

..with the 10 round factory mag.. evidently these are as rare as hen's teeth, now.  The 2- 5 round mags came with it.

 

1407fury2.jpg

 

1407fury.jpg

 

Compared to the vepr 12:

1407fnv.jpg

 

1407fnv2.jpg

 

Both have a magwell & bolt hold open..

1407fnv3.jpg

 

1407fnv4.jpg

 

Inside the receivers.

1407fnvrecvr.jpg

 

The rods, bolts & springs.. the veprs are on top. 

 

1407fnvbolts.jpg

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