jasonh28 1 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) So I recently picked up a 433 saiga. Before I did any research. Kind of wish I would have got a different model due to the non adjustable gas block, and front fore grip. I still love the gun and can live with the gas block, but I ordered a tactical kit before I read on the fore grip. I didn't expect the difference. So now I need help finding a rail system that works with the retaining clip. So please let me know what you used. This was the only one I seen..... http://legionusainc.com/vepr-12-lower-handguard.html Any help is appreciated! Edited January 9, 2014 by jasonh28 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 The 433 is pretty much a non pistol grip, "politically correct" version of the MOLOT VEPR 12, made by Izhmash. It probably would have been better to get a fixed stock VEPR for the few extra dollars, if you intend on "converting" it, but there is nothing wrong with the 433. The gas system IMO is better, because it is self adjusting, and runs birdshot to slugs without turning a gas valve. It has the last round bolt hold open which is a HUGE improvement over the non BHO IZ109's (push a button after you change magazines and you are ready to go - no reaching around the gun and pulling back on the charging handle), and the magwell which is much easier, and IMO faster to use that the traditional "rock and lock" of the Kalashnikov. The handguards for the VEPR 12 are taken from the RPK, and the 433 should be able to use the same hanguards. There are rails, wood, and polymer out there to choose from - just search the internet for "RPK handguards", and see what is out there that suits you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Legion USA 107 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Thanks, for bringing this to my attention. The Vepr 12 handguards will on work on the IZ-433 if you have the Vepr 12 lower handguard retainer. The Saiga one is much smaller. Unfortunately there are very few options for the front end furniture of the IZ-433. Most AK rifle handguards will not fit without custom fitting, and as you have noticed, neither will the handguards designed for the standard Saiga 12. My recommendation would be to give Lonestar Arms a call, they have experience with installing a rail system onto the standard handguards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 The 433 is pretty much a non pistol grip, "politically correct" version of the MOLOT VEPR 12, made by Izhmash. The other way 'round. Vepr 12 is the clone. Think of it as a slightly lighter V12 with an aluminum pic rail, but that needs conversion. If you plan to change the stock and trigger group anyway, it makes the two about the sense financially, but will have a couple pin holes to fill. IMO it comes down to whether you would like the Molot folder, or some other furniture. It's a specialty model, so the QC is good on the 433, so I think that's about even between them. You can't go wrong either way. If I were in the market, I'd probably go for whichever I could get a bargain on first. Although I do like that molot folder stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) The 433 is pretty much a non pistol grip, "politically correct" version of the MOLOT VEPR 12, made by Izhmash. The other way 'round. Vepr 12 is the clone. I was speaking in more descriptive terms than chronological order. Prior to the introduction of the VEPR to the US market, I was not aware that version of the Saiga was ever available here. edit - Meaning with the features such as the self adjusting gas block, the railed hinged top cover, and the conventional rear sight. Edited January 9, 2014 by 7.62m43 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I believe Legion did a couple very small batch runs. I recall one batch had SVD wood on it, that was pretty cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I always liked the features of the "military" versions of the Saiga that teased us in pictures and video clips from Russia. When the VEPR hit the US shores, I thought it couldn't get any better than this. So I jumped on it and never looked back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonh28 1 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks, for bringing this to my attention. The Vepr 12 handguards will on work on the IZ-433 if you have the Vepr 12 lower handguard retainer. The Saiga one is much smaller. Unfortunately there are very few options for the front end furniture of the IZ-433. Most AK rifle handguards will not fit without custom fitting, and as you have noticed, neither will the handguards designed for the standard Saiga 12. My recommendation would be to give Lonestar Arms a call, they have experience with installing a rail system onto the standard handguards. Thank you. The legion USA handguard looks alright. You don't sell the vepr retaining clip on your website? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonh28 1 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 http://Saiga-12.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CHS-V12QR This will work too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) http://Saiga-12.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CHS-V12QR This will work too? I don't think you understand, you need the Vepr-12 hand guard retainer for any of these options. That retainer is not a readily available part. You would have to purchase one from someone who's Vepr shit the bed. Hence you are fucked if you're looking for a quick and simple solution. Contact Lone Star Arms and ask them if they can custom modify a rail to fit your model. Website here... http://www.lonestararms.com/saiga_12_gallery Somehow they managed to get a rail on this 030. Edited: The quick and simple solution would be to buy a section of rail and screw it to your existing hand guard. Edited January 10, 2014 by HighPlainsDrifter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonh28 1 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I emailed them tonight already. I like that one they made Really wish I got a different model The reason I made this thread is to talk to those who actually made something work and have these. Not Just for general ideas what to do Edited January 10, 2014 by jasonh28 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonh28 1 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Anyone know if the outside of the retainer is the same as an ak? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Anyone know if the outside of the retainer is the same as an ak? Still grasping at straws, eh? There was one owner who chopped the shit out of a UTG rail and made it work, and another member, goldeneagle76, attached a poly rail to the existing factory hand guard. I'd do some searching and contact them since you're only soliciting advice from those in the know. On second thought, I really want that 433. At the right price I'll take it off your hands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Anyone know if the outside of the retainer is the same as an ak? I don't know for sure, but most likely, anything made for an AK will fit the retainers, but will not fit over the barrel which is much thicker than an AK barrel. The tri rail system for the Vepr will probably fit, but first you need to figure out why you want rails all over your shotgun. Are you going to mount a laser, flashlight, vertical grip and holosight all at once? If so, you shouldn't. Keep in mind that people go thru a lot of trouble to rebuild their guns to be closer to the 433 configuration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonh28 1 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) On second thought, I really want that 433. At the right price I'll take it off your hands. For the right price. Any things for sale Lol. I am going to do the conversion and get a side folder. I may just screw a rail to the bottom of the handguard. I would just like my pistol grip. Lone star wanted 1100 to rebuild my gun. And that's all they offered. Other than saying "you may have to try and epoxy a rail on yourself then" Lol. Edited January 14, 2014 by jasonh28 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) On the price, I'd give you straight up roughly $500 (depending on condition) or trade you my "safe queen'd" RJF S-12 plus you come up with another $1300. Not expecting you to bite but I thought I'd throw it out there... My final comments on the railed hand guards... Keep trolling rusiansurplus.net as last month they had a factory railed handguard for the S-12. Sure it was expensive, something like $150 but it's the quick and easy fix you're looking for. They don't come available often. In fact this was the first time I ever came across one. The other thing to keep in mind is the railed gas block if your looking at attaching a light. At time these become available as well. It's been about a year since I've seen them, kvar would be the first place to look. You can also have a smith modify a rail to your gas block. If you are looking for rare russian parts I would put in a personal request with russiansurplus.net and rusmilitary.com. I would also put up a WTB add in this and other forums. It may take a year or two but with persistence you may find what you're looking for. Stranger things have happened... In regards to a stock, if you want an easy bolt in folder I suggest going with bonesteel. I have one and like it. No fuss about it. Finally, contact goldeneye and ask him how he attached his rail. If my memory serves me right, he reamed out part of the guard so the rail laid flat and screwed it into the plastic. Good luck! Edited January 15, 2014 by HighPlainsDrifter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasonh28 1 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I did my conversion last weekend real easy didn't take long at all Edited January 31, 2014 by jasonh28 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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