brickfield mfg 86 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 http://stores.csspecs.com/saiga-12-gauge/ 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barnetmill 1 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 At $63.00 they are certainly charging what they think that the market will bear. The S308 mags are $46.50. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magicmonger 1 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Definitely over priced... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 How should I word my rebuttal... Well, I started working on this project with this dream that I would one day get paid... 18 months later and the money pit finally seems to have hit bottom. When I started this I was 1/4 bald, I am now about 1/2 bald... So I charge accordingly.. We do intend to lower the price as improvements come online.. But until they are online the price is the price. For a better value perhaps you could buy a factory 8rd. 16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 As I rarely pop in to contribute and I will just say this. If you fucking sons o bitches want a better product for a better price, make it yourself! I don't have any interest in this either, so screw off. 12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 How should I word my rebuttal... Well, I started working on this project with this dream that I would one day get paid... 18 months later and the money pit finally seems to have hit bottom. When I started this I was 1/4 bald, I am now about 1/2 bald... So I charge accordingly.. We do intend to lower the price as improvements come online.. But until they are online the price is the price. For a better value perhaps you could buy a factory 8rd. I have never seen a product hit the market at a discounted price! It is only after some of the R&D costs are recouped, and production is streamlined, that you start seeing prices drop. There are people out there who will gladly pay the going price for a quality product, and I am sure your sales will reflect that! How many times have we seen the initial production run of a good product sell out, and they show up on Gunbroker for 25% or more higher than the original price? And people buy them - mad because they hesitated and missed the boat - but just having to own one! Bottom line - if you think they are too expensive - don't buy them! Or like the man said - "For a better value perhaps you could buy a factory 8rd" 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Sales are actually doing fine for the volume of cautions/warnings I have listed and the time of year. I understand the grumbling.. I originally got into this because I could not afford the FBMG mags for my Saiga .308. A few of you probably remember my computer case magazine. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 As I rarely pop in to contribute and I will just say this. If you fucking sons o bitches want a better product for a better price, make it yourself! I don't have any interest in this either, so fuck off you scumbag pricks. I thought I was the only one round here that talks like that, I couldn't have stated it any better 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I wanna see the computer case mag! So here's my two cents. These mags are $23 more than a Promag stick. $18 more than a izzy 5 or an Sgm 12. $3 less than the cheapest I have seen a promag 12 for, and $18 less than the normal price. They are roughly a third the average cost of an izzy 8, and arguably better looking and tougher. They are extremely well fitted if the betas are any indication, and he's already stepped up to say since this is an early release, he will rapidly solve any problems on his dime. If you get one and hate it, the next batch will be a while. At a guess, most the world that doesn't use this site or the vepr site has never heard of it. You could probably scalp them on gunbroker or ebay for double what you pay before people catch on. maybe even $150. At anyrate, if you think it sucks you shouldn't have a hard time getting your money back. As I understand it he has many hours of labor and hundreds of thousands into the dies at this stage. If you were in his shoes and knew the above, what price would you charge? How about when you know customers have been begging for them for close to a decade, and you could probably sell the first batch for $99 each without difficulty? Everyone who knows me knows I am a tightwad and would rather do myself or do without than over pay. I'm probably not going to order a dozen at $65, but for one or two mags that will absolutely work if dropped hard on a cold day while in the gun, or even fallen on, that seems like a reasonable expense. I'd rather have 1 of these than two promags (or some AGPs) that I can't completely trust. I don't recall anyone ever saying a CSSpecs spring fell into shards. I can't speak for CSSpecs, but I expect after he recoups his development cost they will be between $45 and $55. There are things I actually prefer the plastic mags for, but these make a lot of sense for rough use or very cold weather. They also look very good. 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 i think the price is good and fair for the amount of work it takes to produce mags like this. I hope there are some left on my payday. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barnetmill 1 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) At $63.00 they are certainly charging what they think that the market will bear. The S308 mags are $46.50. I did not say it was too much but what they thought the market will bear. Eventually I may buy some after they have been out a while and we all know how well they work. Currently to my knowledge the only reliable 8 rounder out there is the russian factory mag. I have not ck their price or availablity of the russian mags, but suspect they they are not cheaper. It was my understanding that in some cases hand fitting will be necessary for the new steel magazines. Edited January 11, 2014 by barnetmill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 At $63.00 they are certainly charging what they think that the market will bear. The S308 mags are $46.50. I did not say it was too much but what they thought the market will bear. Eventually I may buy some after they have been out a while and we all know how well they work. Currently to my knowledge the only reliable 8 rounder out there is the russian factory mag. I have not ck their price or availablity of the russian mags, but suspect they they are not cheaper. It was my understanding that in some cases hand fitting will be necessary for the new steel magazines. These are stamped steel guns they're all different.....what the #%&! do you expect from a vodka special? DO NOT BY A RUSSIAN GUN IF YOU DON"T WANT TO DEAL WITH THEM........go buy an AR and have fun 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 The price is fair and that's not an opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 The magazines should be very consistent. We have a large steel fixture that we push the top into and it aligns all the lock up points for welding. Its one of the most complicated welding fixtures we have made, but it reduced errors to 0%. However the magazines are made for a firm fit. If you have to file a factory 8 then you will also have to file on ours. If on average everyone is filing, I'll replace the stops in the fixture and order the rear lugs a little smaller. In a few shotguns I have access to the magazines fit within .005" of the factory 8s I have on hand.. But they are firm fits. I feel that the workmanship is much better on these than the betas. But I want to see what field testing reveals. I'll see if I can find a picture of the Csspecs saiga .308 computer case magazine.. The original is sadly lost to the scrap man. I made it with: mig welder Old computer case sheet steel Block of wood for a welding mandrel a hammer a vise half an AK-47 spring I shot 400+ rounds without issue. I have one from the same era for the Saiga 12 shotgun. It was my first 8 round magazine. The one on the right is my first try.. I've shot many many rounds through it.. Its actually a curved magazine, it has blocks welded inside and another plate is the back of the magazine. I made it spring of 07' because I was too broke to buy a AGP mag or factory mag. Floor plate is lost out in the state land up by mackinaw MI.. The one on the left is a mock up from about two years ago.. Me and my brother made 6 of them to dial in sizes. We just shot them using duct tape for floor plates. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobabuee 29 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 if guys that are bitching about price don't buy that simple..... go buy the other guys cheaper metal mag for your s12 hum.... wait their isn't one csspecs stepped up to plate did r&d and layed out cash for us 2 guys with less than 25 posts bitch about price ........ wow 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Actually they are about 2/3 the price of a factory izzy 8. Check Legions site. Good price and I'm sure top quality. Plus 3 parts for you 922 whores. All steel mag competitively priced on the low end of in between the available junk plastic sgm/agp/pm and lined factory mags, 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 To be fair Legion has the Izzy 8s for below market value. K-var sold out time and again at $150 each. I'm shocked they have kept them in stock without running out. Added pictures of the old S-12 mags me and my brother welded years back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 At $63.00 they are certainly charging what they think that the market will bear. The S308 mags are $46.50. I did not say it was too much but what they thought the market will bear. Eventually I may buy some after they have been out a while and we all know how well they work. Currently to my knowledge the only reliable 8 rounder out there is the russian factory mag. I have not ck their price or availablity of the russian mags, but suspect they they are not cheaper. It was my understanding that in some cases hand fitting will be necessary for the new steel magazines. The SGM mags are reliable. In fact the only mags I've had trouble with are the Izzy 5 rounders, and 12 round a couple times with SGM with very high round count and heavy 3" shells that had beat up case heads. and I reckognise those steel mags. I didn't realize those were you. I know a couple other guys over the years have talked about making steel mags and how they had it all worked out, but they never came to market. It seems like a couple crude mags made of very thick mild steel sold for a couple hundred dollars in the WTS section. They honestly looked worse than the AGP mags people were using at the time, so I didn't see the appeal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I'd still like an Izzy 8 someday but this mag is what stays in my gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Nemo 882 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Need some cheese and crackers to go with all the whine in here! $63??? Not any worse than buying factory Mini-14 30 rnd mags! Can't afford it right this minute, but there'll be 10 headed my way! 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Whether something is priced correctly is almost totally subjective to an individual, usually based on how much he can afford to pay and how much he wants it. The market in general is what actually determines the right price point and that will happen here, too. When the MD-20 drums first arrived they cost a lot more than they did later on. The drum was still the same but the market became more competitive with the arrival of the ProMag drums. The same kind of corrections will happen here too, or not. Personally I think the price seems fair but it will ultimately depend on how reliable they are proven to be. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Dogman- that's exactly how I see it. I look at custom built guns and they sure look expensive to me. That doesn't mean the guys who buy them are dissapointed or there isn't a reason for the price, it just means that it doesn't meet my personal cost/ utility threshold. I suppose if the only magazines available for the gun were over $60, a few years ago, I probably wouldn't have bought the gun. Now they seem more like a long term investment to me amortized over decades. For a while, many of us were buying these things on the premise that we might not be able to later. They could drive up the cost of importation, but the stuff is in place to make local versions now. And it isn't a rare gimmick like a streetsweeper, or a USAS 12. Way too many people own them to pull out the rug from under us that way now. They caught our predecessors off guard in 1934, but I think the S12 is here to stay as far as the federal government is concerned. So now to me, it's down to what will I enjoy for the next 40 years, and what would be good to hand off to my grandkids. I want to play rough, and as good as the plastic mags are, if you do competition they are a consumable. With these, you could hammer the dents out and make new springs from piano wire if options got slim. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barnetmill 1 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 To be fair Legion has the Izzy 8s for below market value. K-var sold out time and again at $150 each. I'm shocked they have kept them in stock without running out. Added pictures of the old S-12 mags me and my brother welded years back. I will buy a magazine or two from you since there is no other via alternative and a lot of other will buy magzines from you. I will not buy a whole lot of them. Maybe one or two a year until I have say 5 or of them. I still need to buy some more S308 mags from you. It is likely I can set up a guide for using 10 round stripper clips for rapid reload of my S 308 magazines. I have not tried it yet. How about making some stripper clip guides. My go to guns are akm's (AK47's) for which there is no mag issue if you use combloc mags. The S12 is for use on my estate against most destructive animals (not sure about our black bears on this) and dangerous 2-legged prowlers for which a huge ammo load is not needed. The shotgun with #4 buckshot presents less danger to neighbors and at a distance might not even penetrate their wooden fences. I will have to this verify some day and definately will not penetrate the brick of their houses as my 7.62's will. There was someone that was recommending an AR that had some colorful comments. I am not sure what is available at the moment in AR 12 ga shotguns. There was something out there in an AR design. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DOMIDARKO 5 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Ordered mine! Been checking on these every couple weeks. I'm glad I couldn't sleep last night so that I could catch them before they're gone. Absolutely reasonable price, I think, I mean I've bought promags for half the price of cssspecs products, then bought the csspecs later when they didn't work great (VEPR 308). I really can't believe somebody would have the nerve to post that bullshit. Anyhow I can't wait to test it out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'm happy to pay that price. If it drops in the future, so be it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 87 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 One on the way! I am more than happy to have one of the first US made steel S-12 mag. Plus helping a business member launch a new product -double win IMO. Cheers to CSSPECS!!! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neubert500 11 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Due entirely to my own issues (bought a S&W 329NG to back up my 329PD), I cannot afford to buy currently, BUT my bank account will recover and I will be buying some later! Thanks for your considerable expense and efforts CSSPECS!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I don't have any problems with the price. Just ordered a couple myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 You gotta pay to play. Its not that bad. Im just glad to see more options come to market. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think this is priced just fine. Seems tgey easily twice as good as anything available. So easily worth twice as much. neubert500 how do you like your nightguard? Ive got an XL hunter and love it. smith and wesson is becoming my passion. Also check out this nightguard dont know what happened but id hate to have been holdibg it. http://armedandamphibious.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/sw-329-night-guard-kaboom/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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