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Smith & Wesson to Stop Selling Guns in California


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Wouldn't 2 quick swipes with a file, remove the micro stamping off the firing pin anyway?  Ignorant libtards!

Or one quick pass on a polishing wheel...

Or replacing the firing pin with an after market / different firearms pin...

Or policing your brass...

 

Anyone who claims to be a "responsible gun owner" from California (or Massachusetts or N.Y. or Illinois, etc..) and they haven't immigrated to the United States of America, should be viewed with skepticism and distrust.   "The BIG One" in CA can't happen soon enough, as far as I am concerned.  Why do so-called Americans still visit, much less live there?  Seriously?

Good for S&W and Ruger!

 

Macbeau sends....

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NRA doesn't give two shits, they haven't tried to fight CA ovee anything, so far as I know. Calguns foundation are pretty much it, and any wins they get are constantly appealed. The state never stops attempting to oppress Californian's 2A rights.

 

The more inportant thing to consider about microstamping is that revolvers are technically unable to leave behind stamped brass. Get manufacturers to abandon semi auto pistol sales to CA residents, and then legislate against "untraceable" revolver sales, and CA could very easily effectively ban all handgun sales in the state.

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Or just normal wear and tear on the firing pin will erode the micro stamping!

 

I understand why the few handgun mfgrs. stop any new products due to the stupid law. But the current guns on the roster are "grandfathered" in. I do NOT understand letting them fall off the roster.

 

Mancat has it right the ultimate goal! But I believe it will get to the courtroom and be struck down.

 

Macbeau......I just can't understand your logic in this!

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Good for every gun maker that stops selling too or moves out of an oppressive state. It does make it difficult on those good folks who live in these states. Even here in the south there are idiots who put forth anti 2nd amendment bills every year. They don't make it any where, but they keep trying. I am just tired of people thinking that they know what is best for me.................

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Anyone who claims to be a "responsible gun owner" from California (or Massachusetts or N.Y. or Illinois, etc..) and they haven't immigrated to the United States of America, should be viewed with skepticism and distrust.

The only thing I cant get in Illinois is a SBS and a can. Both of those are in the works this year. NRA has dedicated something like half its budget to Illinois for 13/14.

 

But, Illinois has alot of 2A supporters downstate, in the collar counties, and even in Cook. NRA has alot to work with here. Cali is a whole other ballgame, the people there seem for the most part happy with their restrictions. Like Massachusetts.

Edited by mostholycerebus
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Anyone who claims to be a "responsible gun owner" from California (or Massachusetts or N.Y. or Illinois, etc..) and they haven't immigrated to the United States of America, should be viewed with skepticism and distrust.

The only thing I cant get in Illinois is a SBS and a can. Both of those are in the works this year. NRA has dedicated something like half its budget to Illinois for 13/14.

 

But, Illinois has alot of 2A supporters downstate, in the collar counties, and even in Cook. NRA has alot to work with here. Cali is a whole other ballgame, the people there seem for the most part happy with their restrictions. Like Massachusetts.

 

Exactly. We all can't fit or live in Texas, we simply need to stop giving ground and start taking it all back. Can't do that if you're always on the fucking run.

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I can tell you first hand "the people there seem for the most part happy with their restrictions", this part is not true!

 

Unless by "the people there" means the asshats in office, or the libtards in the cities. I know of NOT one gun owner in this state that is happy or even OK with the bs that comes down on us! The big issue here that I see is one, this state got flooded with libtard ideals back in the late 60's and early 70's! Two, the retards that got into power during that time and later.

 

Another big problem (which is across the country) are the hunters that don't care and think their "hunting" rifle is safe! Sure they will go after the "evil" looking ones first......but guess what is next!

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Question and a comment. Does the 'no sales to California' policy extend to the police and other government types in California?

 

Think of the costs the manufacturer would incur to re-tool and test/approve the microstamped part(s). It would be a nightmare and the costs would be tacked onto the weapon. Everywhere. Not just in one regional market.

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Anyone who claims to be a "responsible gun owner" from California (or Massachusetts or N.Y. or Illinois, etc..) and they haven't immigrated to the United States of America, should be viewed with skepticism and distrust.   .  Why do so-called Americans still visit, much less live there?  Seriously?

 

 

I've read a lot of things on this board,  but you my friend  win the prize for the most ignorant,  arsine and stupidest thing I have read yet.

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Anyone who claims to be a "responsible gun owner" from California (or Massachusetts or N.Y. or Illinois, etc..) and they haven't immigrated to the United States of America, should be viewed with skepticism and distrust.   .  Why do so-called Americans still visit, much less live there?  Seriously?

 

 

I've read a lot of things on this board,  but you my friend  win the prize for the most ignorant,  arsine and stupidest thing I have read yet.

 

Let me be the first to thank you macbeau for holding on to the boobie prize for me haha.gif

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Question and a comment. Does the 'no sales to California' policy extend to the police and other government types in California?

 

Think of the costs the manufacturer would incur to re-tool and test/approve the microstamped part(s). It would be a nightmare and the costs would be tacked onto the weapon. Everywhere. Not just in one regional market.

I think it is respectable and very appreciated what Barret did to the CA leo by saying if the people cant have it the leo cant either! That is not anti leo! But making the playing field fair and proving a point! 

 

As for S&W and Ruger ...I doubt they will follow the Barret example!

Edited by Bigtwin
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I read an interesting lecture from a forensics seminar, and have since seen several other similar ones.

 

The upshot is pretty logical. Basically marks guns leave on bullets, brass and primers are like this:

Well never mind- can't find what I was sure must exist. Basically I was going to insert a clip from my cousin vinny where he trashes the tire track expert.

 

Rifling grooves on bullets aren't all that consistent or good evidence after the bullets are shot. The top experts repeatedly fail double blint tests. Basically they can narrow it down to how many lands and grooves and how wide, but seldom to a particular gun. They might be able to say It's a "9mm glock" truthfully but not "It's this particular 9mm glock."  The same goes for firing pin, chamber and extractor marks, which are even less distinctive absent some unusual defect.

 

But if your job is forensics expert, you don't testify like that. You testify in absolutes and certainty, and juries tend to believe you. Even fingerprints are fairly unreliable, but they are vastly better than brass/projectile i.d.

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Anyone who claims to be a "responsible gun owner" from California (or Massachusetts or N.Y. or Illinois, etc..) and they haven't immigrated to the United States of America, should be viewed with skepticism and distrust.   .  Why do so-called Americans still visit, much less live there?  Seriously?

 

 

I've read a lot of things on this board,  but you my friend  win the prize for the most ignorant,  arsine and stupidest thing I have read yet.

 

Perhaps, but at least I can spell asinine (or at least smart enough to use spell-checker). grimace.gif

Using the persona of a 17th century witch hunter on a 20th century gun board with nothing constructive to add just make you a 21st century troll.  I expressed on opinion.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  If you disagree; fine.  There is no reason to be insulting; unless you really are just trolling.

 

Macbeau...

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I read an interesting lecture from a forensics seminar, and have since seen several other similar ones.

 

The upshot is pretty logical. Basically marks guns leave on bullets, brass and primers are like this:

Well never mind- can't find what I was sure must exist. Basically I was going to insert a clip from my cousin vinny where he trashes the tire track expert.

 

Rifling grooves on bullets aren't all that consistent or good evidence after the bullets are shot. The top experts repeatedly fail double blint tests. Basically they can narrow it down to how many lands and grooves and how wide, but seldom to a particular gun. They might be able to say It's a "9mm glock" truthfully but not "It's this particular 9mm glock."  The same goes for firing pin, chamber and extractor marks, which are even less distinctive absent some unusual defect.

 

But if your job is forensics expert, you don't testify like that. You testify in absolutes and certainty, and juries tend to believe you. Even fingerprints are fairly unreliable, but they are vastly better than brass/projectile i.d.

 

This all seems pretty obvious to anyone with a decent amount of firearms knowledge - juries usually don't count. Firearms, especially today, are precision-made instruments that depend on consistency in manufacture and assembly. Even your Saiga or a rough combloc surplus AK are still made to a reasonably high level of manufacturing consistency. If they aren't, they fail.

 

I don't believe for a second that forensics can narrow down to a specific rifle/pistol - as you said, at most they may be able to narrow down manufacturer/origin, based on caliber and rifling characteristics - and if they have the brass, the firing pin as well. However that's "good enough" or most juries, if they can find a person to pin the evidence on who owns a firearm that matches most of that criteria.

 

Personally I would think that as time goes on, it will become harder to even narrow down a manufacturer, especially now that a lot of commodity barrels are button-rifled, and as a result many US-made barrels for a given caliber may have identical dimensions of the lands and grooves as a result of using identical manufacturing processes, regardless of the actual brand-name manufacturer of the gun.

Edited by mancat
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Why do so-called Americans still visit, much less live there?  Seriously?

Good for S&W and Ruger!

 

 

Well...... I went to California yesterday for work and made nearly a grand in a day, and won't be paying any CA taxes on it. So there's that. When I was offered to move there for work several years back, I didn't even hesitate to say NO. It costs me less to fly down from WA every few weeks than it would to just move there.

 

 

Edited by mancat
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NRA doesn't give two shits, they haven't tried to fight CA ovee anything, so far as I know. Calguns foundation are pretty much it, and any wins they get are constantly appealed. The state never stops attempting to oppress Californian's 2A rights.

 

The more inportant thing to consider about microstamping is that revolvers are technically unable to leave behind stamped brass. Get manufacturers to abandon semi auto pistol sales to CA residents, and then legislate against "untraceable" revolver sales, and CA could very easily effectively ban all handgun sales in the state.

When I lived there the NRA didn't do shit to stop the 'assault weapon' ban.  Their silence was deafening.

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I intend to write both of these companies and explain that, while I appreciate them leaving the civilian market because of the costs involved, I will not be buying their products unless they also leave the Cali LEO and Military markets.

 

They are trumpeting this as "S&W stands for gun owners!" when in reality, it simply isnt profitable for them to completely revamp their technology. They can still sell the standard pistols to LEOs, since Cali exempts their weapons from the law, and im sure they had hope to continue to do so. I consider that traitorous dealing, and in fact completely two-faced as well.

 

Cali LEOs need to pull their heads out of their ass too. They are being used, and their head is next on the chopping block. If you think this is scare mongering, you simply need to take a look at Illinois. LEOs here have had CCW for decades while it was illegal for the rest of us. They never did a damn thing to help law abiding citizens gain the ability to defend our own lives, because it didn't affect them, so they didnt care. Now Illinois has a new CCW law, and guess what, it DOESNT exempt some LEOs, so they are up in arms about no longer being a privileged class. But since they defined themselves as 'separate' and 'above' the rest of us, they have no help, and arent enough of a lobby to get anything done. NRA just told them to pound sand and talk to their union.

Edited by mostholycerebus
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Also they can still keep the existing pistols on the roster without changes. Just no new models. But S&W and Ruger are not doing that, they are allowing the existing pistols to drop off the roster.

 

Glock, Springfield, Beretta, CZ, and the rest of them have done no such thing! As a matter of fact Glock and Springfield have continued to make older generations of pistols(even with the latest ones not available in CA roster). Think XD, while the XDm and XDs are the new models. Glock gen 3, while the gen 4 is the new model.

 

But there are ways to legally get the aforementioned non roster pistols in CA.

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Another big problem (which is across the country) are the hunters that don't care and think their "hunting" rifle is safe! Sure they will go after the "evil" looking ones first......but guess what is next!

 

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

-Pastor Martin Niemoller (WWII Germany)

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NRA doesn't give two shits, they haven't tried to fight CA ovee anything,

 

Considering that PRK is a lost cause...

 

There isn't any place to even make a stand.  The legislature is lost.  The courts are lost.  Even when the people of kommiefornia vote for freedom the courts overturn it.

 

Pouring money down that black hole won't change anything.

 

The battle ends at the supreme court, one way or another.  And that is the only place where the battle for kommie-tardia can be won, if it can be won at all.

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You are thinking in terms of a flood. it's more of a tide or a pendulum. The more absurd things get the riper for backlash. Currently they passed a bunch of stuff that really makes it so a normal person will have a difficult time acquiring or using firearms, and there isn't much disguise to it. I think they've over stepped enough that courts will have to knock some of the laws down. 

 

And Hey. R.B.G. can't keep awake during oral arguments. She's got to go in the next few years. B.O. would like to pick her replacement, but she's too stubborn and power hungry to leave. That might let our next prez balance the court, and hopefully with someone with more character than Roberts.

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