r84shi37 0 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm converting a Saiga .308 and I'm at the step where I need to remove the trigger assembly. I know that I can't just pound the pins out- I have to drill out the shoulder. The issue is that I put one of my bits from my set into my drill press, set my Saiga down, started drilling, and before I knew it I had ground my bit down to two thirds it's length, and my trigger pin shoulder had an indention of less than 1/8th of an inch. Clearly my bits aren't going to go through that shoulder any time soon. I'm about 4 minutes away from a hardware store so I'm thinking I'll head down there and buy a couple more bits. The trouble is that I'm not sure what bit to get to drill through the Saiga's trigger pines and the trigger guard plate rivets. I'm guessing the rivets are easier to drill through, but I'm not sure. I'll also need to use my Dremel to reshape the bottom of the receiver box to fit my new trigger and pistol grip. I'm thinking a metal cutting blade will work... but you guys are the experts. Thanks so much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BB1980 71 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Cobalt drill bits eat through most metal pretty well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Cobalt drill bits eat through most metal pretty well. Yep, the cheapo bits won't do much to that Russian steel. As I remember a new cobalt 3/16 bit did the trick nicely. I drilled right through the receiver after I removed the pins since those black plastic plugs from Lowes are 3/16 anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
r84shi37 0 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thank you both for the help. Cobalt it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
r84shi37 0 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Cobalt worked like a charm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoeAK 337 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Got a picture of the pin you drilled? From what little I know of the S.308s, there aren't any that need drilled. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
r84shi37 0 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Here's a before and after image of two Saiga .308s The rivet has a 'shoulder' so it cannot be pounded out. You have to drill into the shoulder about 1/8th of an inch or so for the shoulder to disconnect from the rest of the rivet. Then the pin can be removed. The gun with the rivet in it was converted by a professional. I decided to convert this one myself. Here's my problem. Now I really should have noticed this *facepalm* but I had the hammer cocked back while I was drilling them. Now I have two loose rivets that cannot be removed because the trigger system isn't aligned properly. I can't pull it out if it's not straight. Normally, I could just straighten it. I can't because the hammer is cocked. I've tried pulling the trigger all the way back but the hammer still won't come forward. I've tried pounding the pin out w/ a hammer and flattened nail (my poor man's jackset) but it won't come out. Anyone else messed up in this way? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoeAK 337 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Those aren't rivets, they're the FCG (fire control group)axis pins, and they're held in by a spring. You didn't need to drill them, and almost everyone re-uses them for conversions, you'll need to buy two more now. If you're unlucky you damaged the receiver where you drilled them out, though I'm not sure how much damage is too much damage, I guess if the new pins go in and don't move much it should be fine. I'd suggest not doing any more cutting, and do alot more reading to make sure you're not cutting something you're not supposed to.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Stop beating on that gun. Go to Youutube and follow the directions http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=css+saiga+conversion&sm=1 It don't get no easier than that. Posted at the same time as JoeAK... Edited February 13, 2014 by AA re-cvrd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BB1980 71 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) What they said. In your one picture, you can see the "shepherds crook" spring pin through your drilled holes. That clip just holds the pins in place. Edited February 13, 2014 by BB1980 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
r84shi37 0 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Oh crap... Thanks for the information. I'l watch the video all the way through and make a battle plan before I do any more metal work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoeAK 337 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Don't be afraid to ask questions, no one likes a ruined saiga. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
r84shi37 0 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 http://dpharms.com/products/saiga_accessories/saiga_shotgun_axis_pins.html Is this the correct size? Thank you guys. I probably would have ruined the whole thing if you hadn't helped me. I inspected the receiver and while the bit did grind the holes just a bit, by the looks of it, I think it's far from ruined. oops, sorry, my text didn't show up. I mean't to ask if these were the right pins. Also, thank you guys for stopping me before I ruined it. By the looks of it the receiver will be fine... I may have to replace the spring though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoeAK 337 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Those are for the shotguns, which are a little bit wider than the rifles. This should work: http://dpharms.com/products/ak-47_fire_control/axis_pin.html As for the spring, many say that a retaining plate is much easier to reinstall: http://dpharms.com/products/ak-47_fire_control/red_star_axis_pin_retaining_plate.html I have one in all my saigas, and it's very quick and easy to remove the FCG with them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
r84shi37 0 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Those are for the shotguns, which are a little bit wider than the rifles. This should work: http://dpharms.com/products/ak-47_fire_control/axis_pin.html As for the spring, many say that a retaining plate is much easier to reinstall: http://dpharms.com/products/ak-47_fire_control/red_star_axis_pin_retaining_plate.html I have one in all my saigas, and it's very quick and easy to remove the FCG with them. Thank you. Also, thanks for being so nice to a noob like me. I'll order them right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Those are for the shotguns, which are a little bit wider than the rifles. This should work: http://dpharms.com/products/ak-47_fire_control/axis_pin.html As for the spring, many say that a retaining plate is much easier to reinstall: http://dpharms.com/products/ak-47_fire_control/red_star_axis_pin_retaining_plate.html I have one in all my saigas, and it's very quick and easy to remove the FCG with them. Thank you. Also, thanks for being so nice to a noob like me. I'll order them right now. Dinzag is very good source for conversion parts, they will have everything you need to do a complete conversion, I think he also has replacement pins if need them. I bought the parts to do my .308 from Dinzag, CSS, and CSSPECS Mags. There are very fine vendors here who have been very helpful to me over the years. Good luck and welcome aboard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Those aren't rivets, they're the FCG (fire control group)axis pins, and they're held in by a spring. You didn't need to drill them, and almost everyone re-uses them for conversions, you'll need to buy two more now. If you're unlucky you damaged the receiver where you drilled them out, though I'm not sure how much damage is too much damage, I guess if the new pins go in and don't move much it should be fine. I'd suggest not doing any more cutting, and do alot more reading to make sure you're not cutting something you're not supposed to.. Good job getting him back on track there Joe. Of course I assumed he was talking about the trigger pins with the rolled shoulders as on the import configuration shotguns and some of the rifles. It never even occurred to me that he was going to drill the axis pins or I would have warned him. Hopefully the damage is minimal there r84shi37. Edited February 13, 2014 by Spartacus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Billybobf 50 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yeah the 308 and my new .223 use a "lift" trigger without linkage Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Here's a before and after image of two Saiga .308s The rivet has a 'shoulder' so it cannot be pounded out. You have to drill into the shoulder about 1/8th of an inch or so for the shoulder to disconnect from the rest of the rivet. Then the pin can be removed. The gun with the rivet in it was converted by a professional. I decided to convert this one myself. Here's my problem. Now I really should have noticed this *facepalm* but I had the hammer cocked back while I was drilling them. Now I have two loose rivets that cannot be removed because the trigger system isn't aligned properly. I can't pull it out if it's not straight. Normally, I could just straighten it. I can't because the hammer is cocked. I've tried pulling the trigger all the way back but the hammer still won't come forward. I've tried pounding the pin out w/ a hammer and flattened nail (my poor man's jackset) but it won't come out. Anyone else messed up in this way? Holy shit! The first pic should be forever banned from the net. I've never seen anything like it. To the OP... Do as the guys have said and read, read, read before you screw your gun up. If the holes you have look anything like the above, you very well may have some problems. If you can't get the hammer to release either by trigger, or manipulation of parts inside of the gun, I'd be extremely concerned for this gun. Get the shepards crook out that holds those PINS and go from there. The crook is why you can't pound em out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spikester 93 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 The harder the metal the slower you run a drill or you will smoke it, use lube and run slow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 r84shi37.... that does look pretty bad on those axis pin holes. I'm not sure what the fix is on that or if the receiver can be welded and re-drilled. Tony Rumore posted some pics of some really buggered up guns he's had in for repair. He might be the guy to go to on this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 The harder the metal the slower you run a drill or you will smoke it, use lube and run slow. Might want to read before giving advice. The drill is this guys worst enemy right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,189 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Tony would be WAY to busy for this... Other gunsmiths could do it... Just goes to show what happens when you ASSUME you know what you are doing, and jump in with both feet in the DEEP END of the pool... !0 minutes of reading on the forums could have saved LOTS of problems, there... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yep, you're probably right about Tony not having time to look at this. r84shi37, maybe try Tom at Cadiz Gun Works. They have a forum section and contact info here. He'll probably ask for some close up pics of what's going on. I don't know if Cobra would take this, but you could try him too in his forum section. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 That...makes me a sad saiga wielding panda. =[ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sim_Player 1,939 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 The axis pin holes are critical and need to be 99% intact. If they aren't, find someone qualified to weld them up and have them redrilled to spec. Only someone intimately familiar with AKs should do the work. Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Why oh why would you not look through one tutorial? It certainly can be fixed but it looks like the pin holes are egged out so it will cost you unless you can weld themback and redo to holes but weldingthese receiver require some specific details to preserve the quality of the steels hardness. You may be better off getting rid of it and start over. While letting buyer know. I could see some confusion, since the s308 does have the fcg in location. You really should have just spent half an hour online before ever tearing into things like this. Another option would be to destroy the receiver and find another and rebuild as a parts kit. Your halfway there already. Or sell the parts kit. Im so sorry Truly sad panda Edited February 14, 2014 by beefcakeb0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Billybobf 50 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Where is the OP from? I'd be glad to offer a helping hand and or hands on advice. Depending on how bad the holes are they might not need attention! Look at the hole for the safety lever! It's got a giant notch to clear the arm inside but still holds the safety just fine. I am on a cell phone so maybe I'm not seeing it but it looks to me like he may have just scuffed the edge a little, don't see egg shaped from my view. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Why oh why would you not look through one tutorial? It certainly can be fixed but it looks like the pin holes are egged out so it will cost you unless you can Another option would be to destroy the receiver and find another and rebuild as a parts kit. Well there are plenty of them around from a different thread Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Billybobf 50 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Why oh why would you not look through one tutorial? It certainly can be fixed but it looks like the pin holes are egged out so it will cost you unless you can Another option would be to destroy the receiver and find another and rebuild as a parts kit. Well there are plenty of them around from a different thread Most of those are the s12 not 308, pretty different on how the carrier fit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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