stackingjp 0 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I am looking to purchase a couple of magazines for my Saiga 12 any help would be appreciated. Which of these magazines is the best choice and most reliable? 1. Factory 8 round Izhmash 2. Csspecs 8 round Magazine 3. AGP Arms 4. SGM Edited March 4, 2014 by stackingjp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 AGP did some shitty things in the industry and I won't do business with them again - their mags were fine when they were all that was available, although they had some quality control issues. Of the plastic mags made in the US, the SGMs are all-around the best. Nothing beats the factory 8-rounders - they are steel-reinforced OEM mags, they work extremely well and look great with the shotgun.CssSpecs mags are too new for any but a select few to give a reliable opinion - if they're up to par with all the mags he already produces, they're fantastic. Someone (sorry, can't remember who) posted a review on here recently, that I haven't had a chance to read yet. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Might try searching the forum 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobabuee 29 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) sgm's for plastic mags win hands down. i have 6 10 round mags no problems, Csspecs mags for metal new but reasonable price quality product. Edited March 4, 2014 by bobabuee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Its Csspecs by the way (it means nothing, so don't bother trying to figure it out). Its hard to beat the factory 8 round. However they are fairly expensive. The whole reason of making the all steel magazine was to make something that actually competed in durability with the factory 8 round.. So far I think we have accomplished that, we will know more as the years go by. I am fairly sure we are the only ones offering return for refund. So if you try ours and within 30 days of receiving them your not satisfied with function, you can return for a refund. How do you intend to use your Saiga-12? Because how you use the firearm will determine what is best. PS the review is like three threads lower. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/93002-attention-s12-owners-steel-mags-review/ 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 AGP did some shitty things in the industry and I won't do business with them again - their mags were fine when they were all that was available, although they had some quality control issues. Of the plastic mags made in the US, the SGMs are all-around the best. Nothing beats the factory 8-rounders - they are steel-reinforced OEM mags, they work extremely well and look great with the shotgun. CssSpecs mags are too new for any but a select few to give a reliable opinion - if they're up to par with all the mags he already produces, they're fantastic. Someone (sorry, can't remember who) posted a review on here recently, that I haven't had a chance to read yet. I think that was chile. I did one too. I have a few hundred through the production run ones I have without a single mag related hiccup. I'll still have to use them a little longer to put a full stamp of reliability on them, but frankly I will be greatly surprised if I have any problems. They are very excellent. I put a review that lists my thoughts in detail on CSSpecs website. Lemme find it and paste it. blarg This is likely the magazine to leave in the gun under your bed. Posted by GunFun AKA GunFun ZS on 5th Feb 2014 I've been anticipating these magazines for a whle now. I've been pleased to use them as a beta tester of the protytpes and the first prduction run. So maybe I am a bit biased because I got a couple freebies and more importantly got to have some input into how they came out. On the other hand, I am also not someone who will give something unproven a pass, nor do I believe that steel or plastic is necessarily better. Either way, the first production mags run well. I haven't tried them with every conceivable type of ammo yet or for thousands of rounds, just hundreds. However, I haven't had a magazine related feed problem with them yet. (In my vid with the mags I have one FTF which I later decided was due to a flaw in the front of the shell. Feel free to attribute that to the mag if you are skeptical.) Here's my take: Pros: + Feeds: The follower slides freely, it has a feed angle centered on the bore, it is designed not to be prone to rimlock or follower tilt. This is the big deal. + is very strong, and the finish is very tough. I wasn't overly worried about breaking my poly mags, but if I slipped and fell on the gun with an SGM, I would not be surprised if it broke. + File to fit= perfect fit with ABSOLUTELY no wobble or rattle- unless you want that. This was a requested feature, and in my opinion is far preferable to one size fits all. + smooth features around the feed lips and area that slides into the receiver. ONE PIECE as welded. - Factory, Keepshooting, and AGP use a metal feed lip clip, which can pop off, can snag, and often adds friction to the system. This one is fixed and snag proof, and smoother than the Factory and K.S, feedlips. (still a little gritty until I gave it a light dress of sandpaper, but it feeds fine) + Looks very good. Hey, we like stuff to look good, and previously the only goodlooking mag was not easily obtainable in the USA and cost around twice as much when it could be found. + Smooth corners on most* handling surfaces. Combined with strength, I feel more secure in using this as a vertical grip or monopod than any other mag. + relatively light for what it is + Steel doesn't get fragile in the cold. + fits in more mag pouches. No horizontal fins to snag on things. These can use many mag pouches made for 308 or 7.62x54r chambered platforms. Probably not all. At any rate more than other saiga or vepr mags can use. Cons: - It costs about $20 more than the good poly mags, or less than the really good poly mags. IMO the price is fair, but more money is more money. - It has a sharp spine. This is genuinely unpleasant, but I understand is being solved by including automotive trim. I put this stuff on mine, and it became a non issue. - weighs more than plastic, but not a lot. For comparison, I estimate the 8 round steel mag loaded to feel about the same as a loaded 10 round SGM etc. Someone with a scale not made for gun powder can confirm or deny this. - is slightly more difficult to load on a closed bolt than others (but lockup is more solid when you do.) This is because 1) the front tab is a little on the small side, so you have to be more deliberate to get &keep it hooked, 2) the spring is stronger so you have to push upward more deliberately 3) the shell sits higher for that great feed angle, so you have to compress it more. It wouldn't be my first choice for competition, but I would trust it more for serious purposes. - it's steel. Steel is vulnerable to the following: rust and corrosion, attracting moisture via condensation in cold or humid environments. dents. (plastic will rebound or fracture so you don't get latent problems. if it's bad, you know. Dents can jam a follower while being hard to notice.) - Won't be easily modified for magwells - The current version (First Production Run)isn't compatible with LRBHOs. As of 2-5-14 - - - They are not 10 or 12 rounders- yet! All in all, this is a magazine I trust and am very happy with. I'd like the front lug to be bigger, the spine to disappear and for them to refill automatically when I empty them. The flaws are minor, and after I get a few more rounds through the ones I have, I will trust them for anything. These are the magazine that could bounce around in your trunk for all year and you would trust them to work. I think any S12 owner should get at least one to leave in the gun. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) I bought 3 VEPR-12 5-round magazines for my Saiga-12 because they were dirt cheap ($16) and I heard they were convertible to fit my magwell Saiga-12. I have some 10-rounders for my Saiga, but wanted some shorter ones, too. So now that I have them, what do you do to modify them? They fit pretty well, but something is preventing the locking lever from locking and it's not exactly clear what. So how do you convert them? Edited March 20, 2014 by MR_22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) I bought 3 VEPR-12 5-round magazines for my Saiga-12 because they were dirt cheap ($16) and I heard they were convertible to fit my magwell Saiga-12. I have some 10-rounders for my Saiga, but wanted some shorter ones, too. So now that I have them, what do you do to modify them? They fit pretty well, but something is preventing the locking lever from locking and it's not exactly clear what. So how do you convert them? The mag catch for the Vepr-12 is shorter which means the rear lug has to sit lower on the magazine. I believe taking material off the bottom of the rear lug should do the trick. I don't have first hand experience so you might want to wait for an answer from someone who does. Compare the rear lugs between those SGM magwell mags and the Vepr-12 mags and you might be able to see a difference. This is all speculation but post back if you find the answer as I've been thinking about that $16 CSS offer myself. This should give you an idea of how much material needs to be removed. Credit goes to Sunnybean for photo... Edited March 20, 2014 by HighPlainsDrifter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the pic. I'll see if I can figure it out. I've Googled all over and can't find specific details, but maybe the above photo will help, thanks. I'm comparing the Vepr mags to my original 4-round one and the 10-rounders I got from you. How can ya say no to $16 5-rounders, tho, eh? Now if I can just get them to work. (Should be good for hunting, too. I think 5-rounders are OK, here, but I"ll have to check--not that I'm a hunter, tho.) Edited March 20, 2014 by MR_22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Thanks for the pic. I'll see if I can figure it out. I've Googled all over and can't find specific details, but maybe the above photo will help, thanks. I'm comparing the Vepr mags to my original 4-round one and the 10-rounders I got from you. How can ya say no to $16 5-rounders, tho, eh? Now if I can just get them to work. (Should be good for hunting, too. I think 5-rounders are OK, here, but I"ll have to check--not that I'm a hunter, tho.) Just for clarification, look at the bottom edges in that picture not the top that have been labeled. The JTE and 030 mag catch are the same length, the vepr is shorter by a few millimeters. When removing material use a small and file and go slow. Take material off in the vertical direction, not the horizontal. Unfortunately, this is all the advice I have and it's not based on practical experience. Although I do believe I'm on the right track. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Now if I can just get them to work. I've done some searching myself and have come up with this photo. Keep in mind these are factory original mags, but what we are looking at on the left is a 030/040 mag and a Vepr-12 on the right. Do you see how the lower edge of the rear lug is just a few millimeters higher on the 030/040 mag? Like I said ealier, just take off a little material at a time and see if it latches. If not, continue the process... Edited March 20, 2014 by HighPlainsDrifter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Gotcha. I'll give it a try. Thanks! BTW, the Vepr mags seem to hold the bolt open, even tho they aren't latching in place yet. So I think that answers the question of whether the Vepr mags will do that. So that's good news. Now i just got to get them to latch in place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) SUCCESS! I just converted one of my Vepr-12 5-round magazines to work in my Legion Saiga-12 with mag-well! I hand cycled 5-rounds and it worked just fine. See the picture of the two 5-round Vepr-12 magazines. The one on the left has been converted. The latch ridge has been raised a couple of millimeters to match the location of the ridge on the Saiga-12 mags. The magazine on the left now latches tightly into my Saiga-12 just fine. I hand-cycled 5 rounds and it seems to work fine, but a shooting session is definitely in order to verify that. I need to be a bit more careful so I don't mark the metal collar, as you can see in the photo, but I'm not too worried about it. Now I need to convert the other two Vepr mags. So, now I will have 3x 5-round magazines for my Saiga-12 for under $50. I'm very pleased. I wonder if I should order more! I also verified that the Vepr-12 5-round mags DO hold the bolt open after the last round. Edited March 20, 2014 by MR_22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 See the picture of the two 5-round Vepr-12 magazines. The one on the left has been converted. The latch ridge has been raised a couple of millimeters to match the location of the ridge on the Saiga-12 mags. The magazine on the left now latches tightly into my Saiga-12 just fine. I know you mentioned in a pm about those SGM magazines fitting rather tight. To make them easier to latch you can use the same process described above or just use the mags and over time they will break in themselves. Thanks for the pic as well. I'm going to shamelessly reuse it when this topic comes up again. So, now I will have 3x 5-round magazines for my Saiga-12 for under $50. I'm very pleased. I wonder if I should order more! No, what you should do is save up and take the remaining SGM mags off my hands. Thanks for the info though, I've been wanting to get some of those 5 rounders for awhile and now I think I'll put in an order tomorrow for four. I have two 4-round Izhmash mags and I think they're really handy to have around. If you order from CSS make sure to use the membership discount code to get 5-10% off. You'll find it in their business section. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 By all means, share the photo if it helps others. I've been scrounging around the Internet for the past few days to find this exact information and couldn't find it. Of course, I saw the photos you shared, too, but they didn't quite demonstrate what you needed to do. I think finally I have a photo that does. Hehe, I love the magazines you sent me, but I'm not sure I need more! LOL. But I'll remember the CSS discount. I didn't know that. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 MD-20 CSSSPECS (from what I've seen.... I'd like to handle one and give a good review but my assets don't match my wants). </thread> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I shot the modified VEPR-12 magazine in my Saiga-12 with magwell and it worked great. I'd call that an overwhelming success! Now I'm going to convert the other ones (I have 2 more and thinking about getting more, as it's a steal at $16 at CSS). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I shot the modified VEPR-12 magazine in my Saiga-12 with magwell and it worked great. I'd call that an overwhelming success! Now I'm going to convert the other ones (I have 2 more and thinking about getting more, as it's a steal at $16 at CSS). Yup, after hearing your experience I ordered (4) of the Molot 5 rounders. At the price of less than $15 ea. (coupon code) why not? Unfortunately the downside is they're 5 rounders and I'm not sure what I'll use them for. I have a couple Izzy 4's and quite a few Izzy 8's. My next mag purchase will be when Csspecs makes metal 10 rounders for the 030/040's. Until then I think I'm all stocked up. Edited: To the OP, when it comes to magazines you get what you pay for. Thanks to Csspecs a new variable has been added. Time will tell... Edited March 23, 2014 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR_22 35 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I like the 5-rounders. I think I'll get more myself. I only bought 3. The 10-rounders are actually kind of big and awkward. I also got a 12-rounder Vepr-12 magazine that I will also convert, but dang, that thing is HUGE and LONG. I also had one failure to feed with the SGM Saiga magazine. It was from the hip and I THINK I let too much recoil go into my arm, moving my arm backward and wasting the recoil. I pulled the slide back and released it and it chambered just fine. I'm new to semo-auto shotguns, so I don't know if you can affect cycling, like limp-writing with a handgun. It was an interesting experience shooting my first semi-auto shotgun. And the buckshot I used really kicked. Edited March 23, 2014 by MR_22 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I'm new to semo-auto shotguns, so I don't know if you can affect cycling, like limpowriting wiht a handgun. It was an interesting experience shooting my first semi-auto shotgun. And the buckshot I used really kicked. Yes, limp wristing your Saiga-12 will induce FTE's. Edited March 23, 2014 by HighPlainsDrifter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I like the 5-rounders. I think I'll get more myself. My 5 round Molot mags came in the mail today. The OP asked which are the best mags for the Saiga-12? Well if I'm going to compare the Izhmash magazine to a Molot magazine I would unequivocally go with the Izhmash made magazine. It just seems that the plastic used is either thicker or of a higher standard, especially when comparing followers. My collections includes... Izzy 8's Izzy 4's Molot 5's Hopefully someday I'll be adding Csspecs magwell 10 rounders. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I finally got a Vepr mag for Christmas and it indeed is but a tiny bit not fitting. So wha part and I supposed to whittle down? The underside of the spur thingie on the back of the mag? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FL Thunder Stick 21 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 SGM ROCKS! ProMag 12-round drum is great! I also have four (4) AGP mags that work flawless as well. TGG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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