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sccritterkiller

Gunsmith Work and Form 4473

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I have an old Ithica double barrel 12 gauge my grandfather bought when he got back from WWII. He used it for as long as he could and then it was passed down to my father who used it as long as he could and when he passed on it came to me...After years of use the forend had developed a crack so it has been sitting in my safe for 10+ years. For my birthday my wife decided to have it repaired for me.

 

I took it to a local shop for repair a few weeks ago and today they called to tell me it was ready for pickup. I ended up on that side of town later in the afternoon for work so I figured I would pick it up.

I went in to pick it up and they asked for my invoice stub...I didn't have it b/c I didn't know it was ready till after I left the house this morning. They said that's ok you just need to fill out a 4473 to get it back. I said that's ok it's at the house I will be back tomorrow.

 

My question is does that sound right? I checked the ATF site and they said it wasn't required. But like all thing ATF I am sure it's up to interpretation. I have my stub so I will go back tomorrow and get it. Just seemed like a weird request. I am a DIY type of guy and don't use smiths that often. I just didn't want to take the chance of screwing something up on a 60+ yr old piece of wood.

 

Hoping some of the smiths here can chime in. Thinking maybe they are just CYAing it's one of the larger LGS.

Thanks

sc

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Any time an FFL takes in a gun in his shop, and you leave it there with him, he has to log it into his book. Same thing if you buy a brand new gun and have it shipped to him so you can pick it up. It goes IN the book and then when you come to pick it up it comes back OUT of the book. During that time the gun may as well belong to that FFL because to get it back or pick it up the first time, you must fill out a form 4473 so he may transfer it from his name to your name.

 

 Normal.

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I've had my smith work on at least 5 different firearms (including assembling my M85 from a parts kit) and not once have I had to fill out a 4473 to pick up one of them. I have had to do so to pick up transfers I've had shipped receivers though.

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Any time an FFL takes in a gun in his shop, and you leave it there with him, he has to log it into his book. Same thing if you buy a brand new gun and have it shipped to him so you can pick it up. It goes IN the book and then when you come to pick it up it comes back OUT of the book. During that time the gun may as well belong to that FFL because to get it back or pick it up the first time, you must fill out a form 4473 so he may transfer it from his name to your name.

 

Normal.

I understand the log issue...So my next question how does presenting my invoice stub not require me to fill out the form? They said come back tomorrow with my stub and my DL and no issues.

 

From the ATF site

 

Neither the transfer of a repaired firearm nor the transfer of a replacement firearm would be subject to the requirements of the Brady law. Furthermore, the regulations provide that a Form 4473 is not required to cover these transactions. However, the licensee’s permanent acquisition and disposition records should reflect the return of the firearm or the transfer of a replacement firearm.

[27 CFR 478.124-25]

 

Thanks for the info just trying to understand the law.

Edited by sccritterkiller

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In CO if the gun stays over night, a 4473 is required.  I have a couple of LGS's that know me quite well and I'm quite certain they wouldn't adhere to that.

 

I left my AR with a smith at a range I rarely go to so he could take a look at some scope problems I was having.  They said nothing about this when I left the gun.  I went to pick it up a few days later and I had to pay the fucking stupid $10 for the 4473 and have that passed before picking up my gun.  I was quite pissed.  I figured that since it was an FFL, I could leave the gun with them and have no BS.

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Any time an FFL takes in a gun in his shop, and you leave it there with him, he has to log it into his book. Same thing if you buy a brand new gun and have it shipped to him so you can pick it up. It goes IN the book and then when you come to pick it up it comes back OUT of the book. During that time the gun may as well belong to that FFL because to get it back or pick it up the first time, you must fill out a form 4473 so he may transfer it from his name to your name.

 

 Normal.

So then how are you able ship a gun to a smith for work and have it sent right back to your house without a 4473? It would require an FFL holder if what you said was true.

Logging it in and out of their book for work performed does not require a 4473. Some FFL's go "above and beyond".

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Any time an FFL takes in a gun in his shop, and you leave it there with him, he has to log it into his book. Same thing if you buy a brand new gun and have it shipped to him so you can pick it up. It goes IN the book and then when you come to pick it up it comes back OUT of the book. During that time the gun may as well belong to that FFL because to get it back or pick it up the first time, you must fill out a form 4473 so he may transfer it from his name to your name.

 

 Normal.

So then how are you able ship a gun to a smith for work and have it sent right back to your house without a 4473? It would require an FFL holder if what you said was true.

Logging it in and out of their book for work performed does not require a 4473. Some FFL's go "above and beyond".

 

 Whatever dude....

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Just got my FFL and the IOI covered this.. If the same person drops it off and picks it up 1 day or 100 (ex.).. no 4473 needed.

 

If I keep the firearm for repair overnight I must log it into my A&D book..

 

If someone other than the drop off'ee picks it up.. then a 4473 will be needed..

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I've had my smith work on at least 5 different firearms (including assembling my M85 from a parts kit) and not once have I had to fill out a 4473 to pick up one of them. 

 

This.  Never have filled out a form to pick up a gun that I left at the smith.  Last one was just a couple months ago.

Edited by Darth Saigus

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Different people have their own ways they do things and can be difficult to try and change. Like some FFLs insist on a hard copy mailed or faxed to them of a seller's / shipper's FFL on a sale. All that info is available online but you can't tell that to some of them because they do it their own way.

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Interesting conversation. I think Cobra has a point in that some are more interested in CYA for some reason. I have shipped pistols, shotguns, revolvers and rifles to have repaired, rebuilt or whatever and have never had an issue. The latest being a revolver sent to Sturm Ruger. They looked at it, gave a price and shipped it back to my home. No forms involved. Who knows? LOL

 

1911

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Thanks guys all good info as I dont know much about this area of the law. The important thing is my heirloom shottie is ready to go to the field again and be passed down to the 4th generation.

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It logs if it stays overnight, but 4473 is only required if someone other than the person who initially delivered it to the smith tries to pick it up. That's the way ATF taught me to do it.

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Below is a link to the ATF FAQ page regarding gunsmiths:

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html#atf-f-4473

 

Different shops have differing policies. Generally speaking when a gun is brought in by the lawful owner for gunsmithing work,it is within the gunsmiths digression to require a 4473 NICS background check when the repaired, or modified firearm is returned to the owner.

 

Mike

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I've had my smith work on at least 5 different firearms (including assembling my M85 from a parts kit) and not once have I had to fill out a 4473 to pick up one of them. 

 

This.  Never have filled out a form to pick up a gun that I left at the smith.  Last one was just a couple months ago.

 

Ditto. Sounds like CYA. Don't see any harm.

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Just got my FFL and the IOI covered this.. If the same person drops it off and picks it up 1 day or 100 (ex.).. no 4473 needed.

 

If I keep the firearm for repair overnight I must log it into my A&D book..

 

If someone other than the drop off'ee picks it up.. then a 4473 will be needed..

This is my understanding also, and that's how things work at my gunsmith's shop.

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Went in today to pick up my shotgun gave them the invoice stub and no issues. No 4473 no nothing..Only wanted to see my DL b/c I paid with my debit card and it says SEE ID on the back....I guess this is just another ATF grey area. Thanks everyone for the input.

Edited by sccritterkiller

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It logs if it stays overnight, but 4473 is only required if someone other than the person who initially delivered it to the smith tries to pick it up. That's the way ATF taught me to do it.

This is the norm we do up at the shop.

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Any time an FFL takes in a gun in his shop, and you leave it there with him, he has to log it into his book. Same thing if you buy a brand new gun and have it shipped to him so you can pick it up. It goes IN the book and then when you come to pick it up it comes back OUT of the book. During that time the gun may as well belong to that FFL because to get it back or pick it up the first time, you must fill out a form 4473 so he may transfer it from his name to your name.

 

 Normal.

Not necessarily true. I shipped my Saiga S-12 to JT Engineering (who is an FFL) to have some work done on it and he shipped it to my home. No paperwork involved since the gun was shipped to an FFL for repair. The only thing required was an adult signature.

Edited by Inspector 12

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A MFG or licensed FFL gunsmith can ship your gun directly to you at home, but any gun you purchase from another individual has to be transferred to you by the FFL who received it for you in the mail. This is common knowledge. By the same token you can legally ship any handgun or long gun directly to a MFG for repairs, but you are not allowed to ship it out of state to another individual. You have to first send it to their local FFL so it can be transferred to them.

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Wow I make one incorrect statement based on what I have seen before and now I will forever have to be taken to task for it. Should I go back and delete it now, make a formal apology to everyone on the forum for chiming in? Gotta love the interwebs....

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Any time an FFL takes in a gun in his shop, and you leave it there with him, he has to log it into his book. Same thing if you buy a brand new gun and have it shipped to him so you can pick it up. It goes IN the book and then when you come to pick it up it comes back OUT of the book. During that time the gun may as well belong to that FFL because to get it back or pick it up the first time, you must fill out a form 4473 so he may transfer it from his name to your name.

 

 Normal.

So then how are you able ship a gun to a smith for work and have it sent right back to your house without a 4473? It would require an FFL holder if what you said was true.

Logging it in and out of their book for work performed does not require a 4473. Some FFL's go "above and beyond".

 

 Whatever dude....

 

Whatever dude? That appears to be a potential customer. You go above and beyond the law to cover your ass. Your assertion of the 4473 is wrong.

 

Not normal at all.

I have an actual master gunsmith that went to the Colorado School of Trade about 35 years ago and has been working on rifles an pistols at a high level at his own shop ever since. He is also a well known knife maker in the guild.

 

Not once, NEVER have I had to do any paperwork on ANY weapon I have had him work on. The only time I did paperwork with him was when I PURCHASED a consigned weapon from him.

 

I sent my Saiga to TAC47 in Texas from Montana and didn't do any paperwork when the shipped it back to MY HOME.

Wow I make one incorrect statement based on what I have seen before and now I will forever have to be taken to task for it. Should I go back and delete it now, make a formal apology to everyone on the forum for chiming in? Gotta love the interwebs....

Gotta love the interwebs, it's how you make your money as a businessman. You should know the subject that you are commenting on and make sure it's on the level especially when it's your profession.

 

It's cool, we all have Biden moments.

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Did you even read the whole fucking thread man? This subject was already put to rest last week and if you will notice it was mentioned a few times that different shops have different policies based on their own preferences. BTW it is not my profession. I am not an FFL yet but will be as soon as my paperwork is approved.

 Biden moment? Geez...really. Damn I swear on this forum it's best to just not comment on anything at all unless you feel like arguing with a ton of bored people.

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Did you even read the whole fucking thread man? This subject was already put to rest last week and if you will notice it was mentioned a few times that different shops have different policies based on their own preferences. BTW it is not my profession. I am not an FFL yet but will be as soon as my paperwork is approved.

 Biden moment? Geez...really. Damn I swear on this forum it's best to just not comment on anything at all unless you feel like arguing with a ton of bored people.

Yep, Biden moment. It's best not to comment in error when your business is related to firearms.

 

The thread is only a week old and is on top of the new threads. It will be here for a few more weeks before it dies. People are very passionate about the laws and their rights. I'm not here to argue with you. I just called bullshit on your first post. I have read every post.

 

Having to do paperwork for gunsmith work is BULLSHIT, paying for the paperwork is even more BULLSHIT.

 

Nobody would do business with a gunsmith in Montana that required you to do a background check every time you had a gunsmith work on a weapon.

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In CO if the gun stays over night, a 4473 is required.  I have a couple of LGS's that know me quite well and I'm quite certain they wouldn't adhere to that.

 

I left my AR with a smith at a range I rarely go to so he could take a look at some scope problems I was having.  They said nothing about this when I left the gun.  I went to pick it up a few days later and I had to pay the fucking stupid $10 for the 4473 and have that passed before picking up my gun.  I was quite pissed.  I figured that since it was an FFL, I could leave the gun with them and have no BS.

That was wrong and fucked up. You could've argued with them over the $10, or even sued - but it's probably better to badmouth the fuckers any time the name of the shop comes up for the rest of your life.

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Just got my FFL and the IOI covered this.. If the same person drops it off and picks it up 1 day or 100 (ex.).. no 4473 needed.

 

If I keep the firearm for repair overnight I must log it into my A&D book..

 

If someone other than the drop off'ee picks it up.. then a 4473 will be needed..

Yes Sir only exceptions is NFA and Consignment.

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