matholland618 0 Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hey guys...I know that the SAIGA's can be picky about the ammo ran through them. I bought this SAIGA 12 unfired. I then converted it, and shot it for the first time. I shot some Winchester 100 round bricks at walmart through the factory 4 round mag. It will shoot, but not eject the shell and load a new one. I tore it apart last night, and drilled the 4 holes out at an angle towards the receiver. I also used a dremel to make the the hole bigger so that you can see all of the ports. I went and tried shooting it again eariler with high expectations. However, it was an epic fail and did not eject the shells then either. I think I am getting ready to run shoot a slug out of it and see if it will eject out with one of those. What else can be done?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Try reprofiling the hammer to match the factory hammer, and do some reading here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyE 81 Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Do A LOT of reading here before you touch another tool. There is much to learn, and some mistakes are difficult to undo. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 What size did you drill the holes to? Did you change anything else within the gas system? Is it getting gas? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matholland618 0 Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I have been doing a lot of research. I bought some heavier loads and tried slugs and they both did good...I adjusted the gas setting out 1 more and it fires the low brass loads fine now with that setting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Moses 3 Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have been doing a lot of research. I bought some heavier loads and tried slugs and they both did good...I adjusted the gas setting out 1 more and it fires the low brass loads fine now with that setting. It will fire low brass on setting 1 but not setting 2? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 He is probably looking at what number is up, not what number is at the detente, thus leading to confusion. Gas setting is the number by the detente after screwing the plug all the way in and backing out to the number. 0) we don't know what parts are in there from his conversion. Reliability should be confirmed with stock spring, plug, and gas adjuster. 1) Not all 100 round packs are equal. You need two numbers off of the box to mean anything. A bit of reading here will tell you which numbers, because reiterating this info is probably half of my post count. Using anything else will lead to unhelpful and misleading results.it is worse than a waste of time and money. 2) As mentioned above, slow down and read before touching another tool. 3) He could have hammer profile issues, friction, or a retaining plate interfering with the bolt travel. 4) size of the holes should be at least 4 @.078" but could require up to 4@.093"- But sort out the stuff in #1 and 3 before even thinking of messing with this. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 If the gun ran fine on the same ammo before conversion, then choked on it afterward, it sounds obvious to me the hammer is the problem.... or most of it. Unless a Tapco, Red Star, TAKT or any other off the shelf hammer is re-profiled to work better in a Saiga 12, they impede function a lot. Even re-profiling and polishing the original makes a hell of a difference. All of the commercially available FCGs on the market are designed for use in an AK rifle, with much more / higher chamber pressures and a much smaller bolt, with a carrier that rides higher in the receiver than that of the S-12 or Vepr. The only reason they are sold for S-12 conversions is because nobody still has made an S-12 specific FCG with that in mind before the parts were cast. I have no idea why not but someone should. Aside from the hammer, contrary to what those who haven't tried it usually believe, re-profiling and polishing the bolt and carrier will also make a huge difference. Just because it will work as is, that doesn't mean it is running anywhere near as smooth and reliable as it can run. A smoother action will keep on running long after an unmodified one gets dirty and slows down. Also keep in mind another very important thing too many folks ignore. These guns were designed by the the Russian Military. They were never designed to work right with cheap low brass bulk pack ammo, especially not Winchester Universal. That crap is the bottom of the barrel in 12 ga. ammo. The loads are under powered and inconsistent at best. They literally use up the weakest loads they MFG by spreading them out mixed in with the boxes of bulk ammo. Single shot and pump guns don't realize this but semi auto guns hate this. Don't use it, instead pay the same price and use something the gun will like. If using the 100 rd value pack ammo do yourself a favor and buy the Federal Multi Purpose ammo. The fact that all the numbers written on the box are the exact same does not matter so don't trust that. Yes those numbers are the formula for the weakest loads you should attempt to run in a Saiga or Vepr 12, but they simply are NOT the same. Try shooting a whole box of the Federal vs a whole box of the Winchester Univ. You can see the difference in how many stovepipes you get from the Win. and how few there will be with the Fed. Even in a gun that has had the bolt group and trigger group worked over, the Fed will eject further than the Win. Try it and see. All my S-12s and V-12 that I re-profiled and polished the bolt, carrier, and FCG on (among other parts polishing in the gun) will run on the Win if that's all there is available, but only because of all the mods done. I still prefer to use consistent and adequately powered ammo in my guns. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XdamagedX 248 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I had the spring legs pop off my trigger once and have this issue. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 The mainspring has nothing to do with failure to feed or eject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Agree 100% with everything Cobra said. Also, how are you retaining your pins? On three occasions I've fixed S12's that had the bolt binding against a pin retaining plate. Remove the bolt and inspect it for a mark or streak along the bottom edge. Also, do this test: Edited March 23, 2014 by DLT 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Agree 100% with everything Cobra said. Also, how are you retaining your pins? On three occasions I've fixed S12's that had the bolt binding against a pin retaining plate. Remove the bolt and inspect it for a mark or streak along the bottom edge. Also, do this test: While this test does help confirm the lack of friction put on the carrier by the hammer when carrier is moving in that direction, it does not show what happens when the bolt & carrier is allowed to slide forward under it's own weight, and how an unmodified hammer (especially after market, domestic or other AK hammer) will stop the carrier on the top edge of the hammer. Additionally it's important to realize and make note there are other areas addressed when needed, on a set of parts done right or sent in for service, that can also hurt the reliability of an S-12, S-20, or other Kalashnikov based shotgun. Also it is important to define the word "need" in this video, and think about other factors greatly effected ? improved by a proper re-profile and polish job, besides just hammer / bolt carrier interaction. When we take in a set we inspect and address all the high friction areas and not just those effecting cycling. Other huge benefits include a much smoother reliable trigger pull and reset, as well as a huge improvement in the ability to insert a full mag on a closed bolt. After our service (or any properly done re-profile and polish of the internals) even mags and drums loaded 3" shells become very easy to insert on a closed bolt with just a small bit of practice. This is a big advantage IMO and decreases the need for an auto LRBHO in both rock & lock and magwell guns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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