Bulged barrel

[Wagnikov 186]

Anyone seen this one before? I got an 11"barrel for sale! Lol soo..... About those replacement saiga 12 barrels?

[6500rpm 670]

_{WTF, I've seen a ringed FA Uzi barrel but never on a 12. What's the story on this?}

[gunfun 3,931]

I'm going to bet he shot a "squib" load. Scary stuff.

 

Thanks for the pics.

[Wagnikov 186]

Went shooting several weeks ago, never really noticed anything out of the norm. Thinking back it did have several fte. Was going to finish the welds on the HK sights. I looked at the barrel and thought hmmmm that looks different. Was in total disbelief even after I looked down the barrel. Lol was in denial for several hours. When I finally accepted the fact, I realized how lucky I was. It's a testament to the strength of the Kalashnikov system. So any eyediers on replacement barrels. Removed the barrel this evening, but the gas block won't make it over the hump!

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Damn! That's no bueno.

It's not so much a testament to the strength of the AK, as it is a sign that 12-gauge shotgun shells run at relatively low pressures. If that happened with a 7.62x39, .308, 54R, etc. - the consequences would be a lot more frightening.

I think Tony Rumore nixed his plans to make aftermarket barrels because of the quality of the blanks he obtained, iirc. I can't recall who is making them, but there are some aftermarket barrels out there.

You could also contact some of the people who have barreled actions because their internals have been in Oregon for a year or more - maybe someone will part with an original barrel.

[gunfun 3,931]

There are two companies making them, one of them used to be a vendor.

 

check your pms

Went shooting several weeks ago, never really noticed anything out of the norm. Thinking back it did have several fte. Was going to finish the welds on the HK sights. I looked at the barrel and thought hmmmm that looks different. Was in total disbelief even after I looked down the barrel. Lol was in denial for several hours. When I finally accepted the fact, I realized how lucky I was. It's a testament to the strength of the Kalashnikov system. So any eyediers on replacement barrels. Removed the barrel this evening, but the gas block won't make it over the hump!

 

were you shooting birdshot?

[james lambert 3,059]

You can turn a plug that fits snugly in the barrel...press it across the bulge and use a body tool to remove the bulge.

 

I have seen it done with shotguns and 1911s

Jim

[goldenpony 61]

_{Replace it}

[gunfun 3,931]

You can turn a plug that fits snugly in the barrel...press it across the bulge and use a body tool to remove the bulge.

 

I have seen it done with shotguns and 1911s

Jim

 

I'd seen that and the reverse for shotguns in videos, but I never heard of it for a rifled barrel. Was the 1911 barrel any good afterwards?

[Matthew Hopkins 1,065]

 Removed the barrel this evening, but the gas block won't make it over the hump!

 

you have no choice but to cut that barrel with the bulge off.   since you have to cut the barrel anyway, just go ahead take the barrel  out of the trunion, and do the form 1 to SBS your S12

Edited March 27, 2014 by Matthew Hopkins

[Wagnikov 186]

Barrel is already removed from trunnion. But I'm in Iowa so no go on sbs. Thinking of monster brake, permed to choke adapter, permed to barrel! Lol. need to get 6 1/2" back.(but don't tell the ladies)

Heard stories of using a large hype cutter with the cutting wheel removed and three rollers to shrink the barrel back down

[Matthew Hopkins 1,065]

Barrel is already removed from trunnion. But I'm in Iowa so no go on sbs. Thinking of monster brake, permed to choke adapter, permed to barrel! Lol. need to get 6 1/2" back.(but don't tell the ladies)

 

 

 

well, that sucks no SBS. you can always go with a fake silencer, basically a slightly larger diameter piece of metal tubing, permanently attached to the barrel. I'm sure there are companies that  sell those. just a sugguestion

Edited March 27, 2014 by Matthew Hopkins

[jdtravers 637]

Barrel is already removed from trunnion. But I'm in Iowa so no go on sbs. Thinking of monster brake, permed to choke adapter, permed to barrel! Lol. need to get 6 1/2" back.(but don't tell the ladies)

Heard stories of using a large hype cutter with the cutting wheel removed and three rollers to shrink the barrel back down

No, the metal is already stressed/fatigued once, you roll it back to shape and now it is fatigued twice.  The next time it got pressurized it might blow all the way.

 

Jack

[Wagnikov 186]

Jack I was only referring to forming the steel down enough to remove gas block. I sincerely believe a person could shoot the shit out of the barrel the way it is. I have welding and machining expirence. I love to do what to others seem impossible. I have excelled in my career for those skills/traits. I'm not sure if it's age, or wisdom, or the fact that I have been bit soo many times by neglecting some obvious repair, only to cost ten fold of the original issue, that I have no intention of shooting past the bulge. Parts breakages is always guiltless motivation for previously planned upgrades!!!!!

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Damn.

 

Why not just cut the barrel a little ahead of the gas block, then press it off? Why go thru the trouble to straighten it out when its basically junk from that point anyway.

[jdtravers 637]

Good luck!!  It is hard to tell just how bad the bulge is from a picture, it may well be repairable by metal forming.  Looking at it again in the pic, it is not as bad as I had originally thought it was.

 

Jack

[Wagnikov 186]

I have no intention of attempting to reuse any portion of the barrel past the bulge. But I don't want to destroy what could be good sbs barrel. Just threw the digital calipers on it. Barrel O.D. .880 bulge .931 I'm thinking very strongly about making a s12-s20 muzzle adapter out of the end of the barrel threads. While I have your attention, Jack do you think there would be any recoil reduction using a s12 break such as yours on a s20. Or would there be too much slip around shot column? P.s. It's pretty cool being able to chat with the movers and shakers in the saiga world on here! The rest of you guy's advice ain't to bad either. Lol no one really answered definitively wth caused this. I'm kinda spooked as I didn't notice this till three weeks later. And it was all factory ammo.

I have no intention of attempting to reuse any portion of the barrel past the bulge. But I don't want to destroy what could be good sbs barrel. Just threw the digital calipers on it. Barrel O.D. .880 bulge .931 I'm thinking very strongly about making a s12-s20 muzzle adapter out of the end of the barrel threads. While I have your attention, Jack do you think there would be any recoil reduction using a s12 break such as yours on a s20. Or would there be too much slip around shot column? P.s. It's pretty cool being able to chat with the movers and shakers in the saiga world on here! The rest of you guy's advice ain't to bad either. Lol no one really answered definitively wth caused this. I'm kinda spooked as I didn't notice this till three weeks later. And it was all factory ammo.

Yes, I double posted, and no, the tig weld is not finished. I wanted to verify the sight alignment.

[jdtravers 637]

Yes, the muzzle brake will make a difference on the 20. 

 

I keep iterating this, but I never really get tired of it:)  There is not enough pressure from a shotgun to make ANY muzzle brake work effectively through pressure like with a rifle brake.  When we move the gas system back and use the mid length brake, then you start to see some decent gains.

 

It all comes back to basic physics:  More weight, equals less felt recoil.  Plain and simple, plus the leverage of hanging the brake out on the end of the barrel makes it work effectively!!

 

If you want to try and save the barrel, I have plenty of S12 barrel threaded ends that you can use for a sleeve.  If you want, I will send you one.  PM me your address.

 

Jack

 

PS:  Here is the other side of that coin.  When people say they put a small, lightweight, breacher type brake on their shotgun and they can tell a difference, this is the mental side of it.  It really doesn't make a bit of difference, but if you THINK it does, then it does!!!!  Amazing how the brain works!!!!

[Wagnikov 186]

So to clarify, in your opinion, it's only a weight/leverage advantage. Therefore, a mass vs acceleration, not a function of redirecting gas pressure wave?

[james lambert 3,059]

Only one comp ever did that well

Jim

[jdtravers 637]

So to clarify, in your opinion, it's only a weight/leverage advantage. Therefore, a mass vs acceleration, not a function of redirecting gas pressure wave?

Not opinion, Facts of physics!!!!  Yes, not enough gas pressure to allow a muzzle brake to work effectively.    You need enough gas to push the shotgun forward and there is not enough pressure to do that.  Lay a shotgun flat on a table and fire it.  It will move straight back, not up.  The recoil is linear, not up.  It is the shooter that does the physical act/motion of making the shotgun look like it is rising.

 

The brake Jim, above, is referring to is the one he designed a few years ago.  Used them on ALL my Open Division Shotguns. 

 

I have the last one, came off his personal gun and they work fantastic, as a mid-length muzzle brake, with a shortened gas system to add more dwell time and pressure!!

 

Jack

[Wagnikov 186]

Man! Dude! I got this badass new spiky thing! Check this out Toby. GGGRRRrraaaa(whilst actually and aggressively leaning into the gun) BAMB BAMB BAMB BAMB BAMB bamb BAMB bamb. Dude that thing worked awesome! (Even though he didnt buy the muzzle nut and it rotated upside-down for half the shots) Yeah! something like that Jack?! Lol we'll I'll say this, you have a lot of character. Because you willing to tell the truth, regardless if it means you politely withdraw from the "my muzzle break sucks(the gun foreward) more than yours" and potentially lose a sale or two. Real men of substance are a dying breed.

[gunfun 3,931]

Well, I did a bit of testing and comps do work in a measurable way. moreover similar designs of different weight seem to behave more alike than differently. So that would show gas deflection doing the work more than mass alone. Whether that is worth it to you is all about values tradeoffs. 

 

For the 20, slip would be an issue, but I think the bigger problem is that the hottest 20 shell still doesn't make much pressure at the muzzle. With 12, the hotter the load the more difference. It's measurable with trap loads, but hard to tell at the shoulder. Once you start getting above that, the effect becomes more dramatic. The light competition loads have less gas to work with, and they are pretty comparable to the power available in a 20...

 

The testing method was flawed enough to invalidate any ability to pull quantitative data, but I put up a few of the 30 something videos just to give enough to give a visible sense of what was going on. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSq6wScgUXRzPU1TmRs54WNHY0719c1ua

[Wagnikov 186]

My s20 was purchased as a soft shooting dear sniper, backup women/children home defense. So most

of the time is will be shooting the heaviest hottest slug I can get.

[james lambert 3,059]

We did testing with accelerometers, in 3 planes.

 

To develop both aur AR15 comps and the shotgun comps

 

I think it was the only non BS testing I know of that used REAL data not what it looked like or felt like.

Or how far a gun moved on some kind of sled.

 

But the actual force applied in three axis.

 

The device was designed and developed by Paul Leitner Wise for the US military, dont know how many were made, but I have one of the first.

I know the facts mean very little to some people here.

But I know for a FACT what JT is telling you is correct

Jim

[Wagnikov 186]

Gonna post a bunch of pic, very little tutorial. Guns back together thanks saiga 12 forum!

If someone has questions about what or why something was done, fire away. Theres a bunch of mods/procedures and reasons for such. Most of which I learned all on here. Haven't shot it yet. Just got barrel in mail today after work.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Oh man, you're gonna get chastised for opening the gas port window too much in the direction of the plug threads.

 

How did you repair the bulge?

[gunman1 1,753]

What about headspace?

[Wagnikov 186]

We'll IMO the only dimension that matters in the gas block mod is toward the breech.more specifically the puck. You could cut it 270der wide and it don't matter. Just don't shorten the stroke of the puck, or it's sealing surface. As far as the threads n shit getting in them, we'll my gas block was a pos from the factory and wobbly loose threads. So 10 shots and it's bound up with lead and carbon. That's a huge part of why the tac47 plug was the best option for me. All the other you have to rotate. And good luck on my gun. Did same thing on 20ga and it's a free bird after hundreds of shots?! The barrel was repaired by cutting it off, pressing it out and sending to a sbs state. Then obtaining a used factory barrel from forum member and reinstalling. Headspace? I'm only 6' and drive full size Chevys so no problems. Lol to tight and bolt gets stuck, to loose and case blows out. Put it somewhere in the middle of those.

[sunnybean 939]

Have you shot this thing since swapping barrels?