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Its not official yet, but 5.45x39 surplus is in danger.


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The latest rumor I've been reading are that:

 

- ATF import branch cannot simply ban an import without a formal ruling/declaration by the ATF, which has not been issued. Despite this, import branch has confirmed that 7N6 is currently banned for form 6 transfers. This is potentially a legal no-no on the ATF's part

- Cope's distributing, and several other vendors, have stated on Arfcom that they are planning to sue the ATF to try and get this reversed. Keep in mind that some of these distributors may have hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of 7N6 currently stuck in bonded stores, and may not be able to return them to their point of origin. That's a huge loss, and I don't know if such a thing can be insured.

Edited by mancat
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Unfortunately, I don't yet have a 5.45, but this e-mail from Classic pissed me off.  Like I'm sure many are...  I'm fuckin tired of the panic bull shit.

Let the panic buying begin.

Till proven ABSOLUTELY wrong I will consider this another scam to drive up demand for 5.45x39 ammo. It did what was intended, I.E. it started a panic amongst the plebes and drove demand way out of pro

... these distributors may have hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of 7N6 currently stuck in bonded stores, and may not be able to return them to their point of origin.  That's a huge loss, and I don't know if such a thing can be insured.

Ahhh. . . I'm now confused.  I thought the info "circulating" was that the ATF was banning (has banned) the importation of 5.45x39 military surplus ammunition, NOT that the sale of existing stores of the ammunition presently in the United States was to be discontinued.  There is a big difference between the two, comprende amigo?

Edited by Gary
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... these distributors may have hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of 7N6 currently stuck in bonded stores, and may not be able to return them to their point of origin.  That's a huge loss, and I don't know if such a thing can be insured.

Ahhh. . . I'm now confused.  I thought the info "circulating" was that the ATF was banning (has banned) the importation of 5.45x39 military surplus ammunition, NOT that the sale of existing stores of the ammunition presently in the United States was to be discontinued.  There is a big difference between the two, comprende amigo?

 

 

If ammo is classified AP, it can no longer be sold to individuals, only to another FFL and LE agencies. If any of these importers have a large amount of 7N6 already in stock, they can't sell it to you or I any more.

 

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

 

 

18 U.S.C. § 922 : US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts

 

PARAPHRASED

 

[it shall be illegal](7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, unless - (A) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State; (cool.png the manufacture of such ammunition is for the purpose of exportation; or © the manufacture or importation of such ammunition is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General; [it shall be illegal] (8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, unless such sale or delivery - (A) is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State; (cool.png is for the purpose of exportation; or © is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General; (!1)

Edited by mancat
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Ammoman still had it available earlier today.

 

This is why what the ATF is doing has been described as shady at the very least.

 

They haven't released a declaration/ruling to officially ban 7N6 as AP ammo, so 7N6 hasn't been officially classified as AP - but, the ATF is refusing to complete form 6 to conduct imports based on their AP determinations.

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Whats the point of creating legal definitions in law if you don't follow them?

Rule of law means zero today. That is unless YOU break it. How many times has the current regime broken the law at their leisure and there be absolutely no consequences. This will continue and as a matter of fact get much worse before November. Watch.

Edited by JAG
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NRA isnt making a big stink, at least not yet.

They at least finally commented on the matter but it was a very guarded position.

Who knows.

The NRA has no corporate interest in the importation of surplus ammunition.

 

In my opinion, the NRA is a good thing but has been infiltrated with the kind of men who are just like the Republicans In Name Only.

 

However, they are a great organization that does a lot for the shooting sports. On the other hand they have done a lot of stupid shit like allowing surplus AP to be banned in the first place.

 

Like any organization, it must be cleaned up from time to time.

 

Competition is good. It keeps people on their feet. The GOA is getting stronger every day and somewhat keeps the NRA on their feet.

 

 

This is probably all bullshit since it came from "How not to roll." Yeager and a bunch of unconfirmed internet posts and a low ranking field agent. It may be true and they just stopped the form 6 from approval.

 

Either way we have momentum and should not waste the moment to revise the AP ammo policy. It was never intended to BAN RIFLE AMMO. It was some feel good bullshit to protect cops that have not been killed by AP ammo before and since the ban that was directed to handgun ammunition.

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The NRA has a public image problem.  The left has been somewhat successful at painting them (us) as bloodthirsty extremists.  But not as successful as they would like.

So the NRA have to consider the likely result of fighting an "armor piercing" bullet ban.

The media would LOVE to blast the headline NRA Supports Cop Killer Bullets For Criminals!
 

You and I know it's bullshit, but the low information majority could be swayed.

The NRA stepping into this fight would do more harm than good.  Even if the NRA took it to court and won, the media frenzy would hurt us more than the ban.

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I don't believe the media actually cares about this issue at all, and probably won't, regardless of what the NRA does.

 

The "cop killer bullets" argument is pretty easy to shoot down, no pun intended: just about all centerfire rifle cartridges can defeat all soft body armor. Most hunting cartridges will even defeat rifle plates.

 

It's an issue that the media would be stupid to take on, because they would immediately demonstrate their technical ignorance.

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It's an issue that the media would be stupid to take on, because they would immediately demonstrate their technical ignorance.

 

Now read that sentence again and ask yourself why I laughed when I read it.

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Maybe you're suggesting that it's never stopped them before, but I would argue that the media's gradual silencing of gun control stories since their massive losses last year, give an indication that they may be learning the lesson.

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they may be learning the lesson.

Stop it!  I can't breathe! haha.gif

 

The media don't learn.  They already know everything.  They may change their focus from time to time but that's tactical.  Their strategy never changes.

Edited by Darth Saigus
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The validity of halted imports is no longer in doubt, far too many confirmations.

It is also very susceptible to a court ruling... eventually.

 

Isn't it time we ceased caring what our opposition thinks or does?

Has not exactly worked out very well giving a tinkers damn what the media claims.

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The validity of halted imports is no longer in doubt, far too many confirmations.

It is also very susceptible to a court ruling... eventually.

 

Isn't it time we ceased caring what our opposition thinks or does?

Has not exactly worked out very well giving a tinkers damn what the media claims.

Which is not exactly a recommendation for deliberately feeding the opposition.

 

The media has become a tool of the leftist government. 

 

In a perfect world where the opposition has no power that would be a great philosophy.  When you're ready to stop playing by their rules then you may stop caring what they think. 

 

And don't tell me that you don't play by their rules.  You own the guns they allow you to own.  You buy the ammunition they allow you to buy. 

 

You sign petitions begging them not to take more of your rights away. 

 

You are playing by their rules.

 

And yes I acknowledge I play by their rules.  I don't want to go to prison or be shot by a government ninja.

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The validity of halted imports is no longer in doubt, far too many confirmations.

It is also very susceptible to a court ruling... eventually.

 

Isn't it time we ceased caring what our opposition thinks or does?

Has not exactly worked out very well giving a tinkers damn what the media claims.

Which is not exactly a recommendation for deliberately feeding the opposition.

 

The media has become a tool of the leftist government. 

 

In a perfect world where the opposition has no power that would be a great philosophy.  When you're ready to stop playing by their rules then you may stop caring what they think. 

 

And don't tell me that you don't play by their rules.  You own the guns they allow you to own.  You buy the ammunition they allow you to buy. 

 

You sign petitions begging them not to take more of your rights away. 

 

You are playing by their rules.

 

And yes I acknowledge I play by their rules.  I don't want to go to prison or be shot by a government ninja.

 

The ignorance in this post is astounding...

 

Everyone knows the US stopped deploying ninjas in December of 1941.

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The validity of halted imports is no longer in doubt, far too many confirmations.

It is also very susceptible to a court ruling... eventually.

 

Isn't it time we ceased caring what our opposition thinks or does?

Has not exactly worked out very well giving a tinkers damn what the media claims.

Which is not exactly a recommendation for deliberately feeding the opposition.

 

The media has become a tool of the leftist government. 

 

In a perfect world where the opposition has no power that would be a great philosophy.  When you're ready to stop playing by their rules then you may stop caring what they think. 

 

And don't tell me that you don't play by their rules.  You own the guns they allow you to own.  You buy the ammunition they allow you to buy. 

 

You sign petitions begging them not to take more of your rights away. 

 

You are playing by their rules.

 

And yes I acknowledge I play by their rules.  I don't want to go to prison or be shot by a government ninja.

 

 

 

The only ones giving the media power are those that worry what it will publish and tailors actions accordingly.

If one does not do the right thing based on that fear then that is collusion.

 

The government, not sure why that leap was made since the point concerned the media, has the ability to inflict violence so must be considered in any decision. 

 

As for the personalizing the matter, I pass.

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I picked up one more crate today.  In case anyone else is going for a last grab Dans Sporting Goods has them for sale $409.99.

Edited by DarkStar
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There's been several, supposedly jbi armory, the comments on the main link claim Leonard embody the orange muzzle tip guy and political"activist" made two, and the ar pistol kits to name a few. I'm so screwed with only 30 7N6 and 35 7T3 which won't be shot now.

And a lot is two words :P

He did make at least one on video and is a member here.
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A way to fix this law to its original meaning and prevent further abuse.

 

"For the purpose of this section, pistol or hand gun shall refer only to pistols that feed from magazines contained fully within the grip of the firearm.

And exclude all rotating bolt firearms."

 

The above would exclude break actions, revolvers and ar/ak based designs..

 

Another would be to place "hardened" before steel.

And then place a line that says "hardened steel for the purpose of this section shall refer to steel of a hardness of rockwell C 50 or harder"

 

Either of these would trim the law back to its original intent of stopping production of pistol ammo that was made to go through a vest.

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A way to fix this law to its original meaning and prevent further abuse.

 

"For the purpose of this section, pistol or hand gun shall refer only to pistols that feed from magazines contained fully within the grip of the firearm.

And exclude all rotating bolt firearms."

 

The above would exclude break actions, revolvers and ar/ak based designs..

 

Another would be to place "hardened" before steel.

And then place a line that says "hardened steel for the purpose of this section shall refer to steel of a hardness of rockwell C 50 or harder"

 

Either of these would trim the law back to its original intent of stopping production of pistol ammo that was made to go through a vest.

Great point.....This fight is about the bigger picture. I'd love to see the import ban on 7.62x39 steel core lifted. And we all know ATF want's 54r next.

Edited by varickm
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they may be learning the lesson.

Stop it!  I can't breathe! haha.gif

 

The media don't learn.  They already know everything.  They may change their focus from time to time but that's tactical.  Their strategy never changes.

 

Yer makin me LOL Saigus...haha.gif

 

I haven't followed this thread too closely, so this may be a repeat.  Anyhow, I got this from Classic today...

 

We had to pay more for it but we secured the last known shipment of this highly desirable Russian made 5.45x39 ammo to reach shore.  It will arrive at our warehouse late Wednesday but we are taking orders now.  Get it while you can and stock up. We'll be sad to see this great ammo disappear from the market.  Expect some delays in shipping.  

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Classic just sent me a panic-o-gram saying they had some in stock "for the last time"... Sooo... better get some?

 

edit: That offically makes 5.45 easier to get than .22LR....  Don't sweat it guys! You'll still be able to get ammo somewhere.

Edited by Maxwelhse
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Dans ammo has the best price right now. JG sales sold out today. IF you like this ammo 7N6, now is the time to buy it ( you should have been doing this over the last 6 years) because many vendors will pull it from inventory and then it will mysteriously return and sold as " very rare and banned AP ammo, $500 per spam can" I purchased my last 7N6 crates several days ago as a last hurrah and will not pay the soon to be stupid high prices as the writing was on the wall when Barry got in the first time. I"ll stick to the RA standard or Wolf after that.

FYI if you also have not been doing this with the 54R round you might want to be all over that because I promise you that is next. Guaranteed!

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