ToysRUs 8 Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 I get failure to feeds often enough as to make it a problem during a 3 gun match. (Thank god for the left side charging handle) As normal everyone says "tune the mags". My big issue with this is that the bolt tab that strips the shell just barely hits the rim. Say by 1/32". To raise the shell you have to bend the feed lips right where they are connected at the back of the mag. I don't like that fact and it is almost impossible to get it up high enough and then control the shell with the front of the lips. This especially with the long mags as they drop down some against the mag catch and effectively lower the magazine and thus the shells. I decided to look at the bolt as the issue. My thoughts were that the tab was not long enough. When the barrel is off you can see the feed ramp and thethe slot that the loading tab fits into. I noticed that there was a large amount of room in the slot below the tab. So why not lengthen the tab and stop screwing with the mags. (unless they present the shell at the wrong angle and that is another issue entirely) I went to my gunsmith and looked at the problem, He agreed with me se we set to fixing it. Tig welded a bead to the bottom of the loading tab and then reshaped it to match the back ramp side of the tab. ( the ramped rear side allows the bolt to move backwards over the nest shell and smoothly press it down. The tab is now 1/16" longer and easily overlaps the shell rim while still fitting in the ramp slot and clearing the rear of the magazine. The bead itself was pretty hard so we will see how it lasts or wears. Took it out yesterday for test and tune and it worked flawlessly. I had two failure to feed and that was the soft federal bulk back hulls. Running WinAA or Remington STS the gun fed perfectly. I did have one issue and that was scratching of the top of the follower as the empty bolt slides home. I had not rolled the front edge of the new tab much. It was kind of sharp and scratching the plastic. Fixed that and no more scratching! This is a big big move forward for my gun. Now I will not be thinking every time I pull the trigger during a match will I have to cycle the bolt to fix a FTF. Here are the pics!!! Original bolt with the short tab. New extended Tab. This is before rolling the leading edge more. Bead of weld (ignore the lower scratch, it was made with an awl) Shaped tab. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Nice. Do you think that bead will hold up or fracture after a lot of shooting ? I'm glad to see people working on bolt upgrade ideas. To me the bolt is really the last missing link in perfecting this gun. Edited April 4, 2014 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ToysRUs 8 Posted April 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Consider that the tig bead was really hard I am hoping it will be ok. I imagine it could crack and fall off but It really isn't getting "hit" by anything. Just contacting the rim of the case and stripping ot off the mag. Not alot of force in the big scheme. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Lots of variation in that feature on the bolt Looks like they hand finish it, some are pretty square some have a large radius. Only trick is to make sure it doesnt dig into the next shell down while stripping a round. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) I get failure to feeds often enough as to make it a problem during a 3 gun match. (Thank god for the left side charging handle) As normal everyone says "tune the mags". My big issue with this is that the bolt tab that strips the shell just barely hits the rim. Say by 1/32". To raise the shell you have to bend the feed lips right where they are connected at the back of the mag. I don't like that fact and it is almost impossible to get it up high enough and then control the shell with the front of the lips. This especially with the long mags as they drop down some against the mag catch and effectively lower the magazine and thus the shells. I decided to look at the bolt as the issue. My thoughts were that the tab was not long enough. When the barrel is off you can see the feed ramp and thethe slot that the loading tab fits into. I noticed that there was a large amount of room in the slot below the tab. So why not lengthen the tab and stop screwing with the mags. (unless they present the shell at the wrong angle and that is another issue entirely) I went to my gunsmith and looked at the problem, He agreed with me se we set to fixing it. Tig welded a bead to the bottom of the loading tab and then reshaped it to match the back ramp side of the tab. ( the ramped rear side allows the bolt to move backwards over the nest shell and smoothly press it down. The tab is now 1/16" longer and easily overlaps the shell rim while still fitting in the ramp slot and clearing the rear of the magazine. The bead itself was pretty hard so we will see how it lasts or wears. Took it out yesterday for test and tune and it worked flawlessly. I had two failure to feed and that was the soft federal bulk back hulls. Running WinAA or Remington STS the gun fed perfectly. I did have one issue and that was scratching of the top of the follower as the empty bolt slides home. I had not rolled the front edge of the new tab much. It was kind of sharp and scratching the plastic. Fixed that and no more scratching! This is a big big move forward for my gun. Now I will not be thinking every time I pull the trigger during a match will I have to cycle the bolt to fix a FTF. Here are the pics!!! Original bolt with the short tab. New extended Tab. This is before rolling the leading edge more. Bead of weld (ignore the lower scratch, it was made with an awl) Shaped tab. How much did he charge for it? I have a spare bolt that could use that fix too... Edited April 4, 2014 by gose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ToysRUs 8 Posted April 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Yes it was hand/belt ground by me. We did not cut it on the mill. All I did was work it to get a slope in the bottom of the tab. As Jim said the bottom just needs to not drag on the next shell and as I found not cut into the follower. It can really all be done with diamond files if you don't have the 1" belt sander. Doesn't have to be perfect since all it does is push the next shell forward. The welder charged me $20 to sand blast for prep. Then he clamped the bolt face to a piece of aluminum (to create a straight edge parallel with the bolt face)and Tig weld the bead on it. Any real welding shop can do it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ToysRUs 8 Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Shot a 3 gun match yesterday here in TN Worked flawlessly. I am expecting good thing from now on! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Very interesting! Nice work! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Good work and thanks for sharing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
isma 0 Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Nice work, you have xn or pre-xn? can't you give us some measure of the height betting bolt and bolt carrier? Some like this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 How's the weld holding up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ToysRUs 8 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 OMG, who knows how many rounds are through the modded bolt at this point. A whole season of 3 gun almost every weekend. Not a mark, nick or wear on it! Every once in a while I'll have a round not strip but it is always because I havent stretched a mag spring in a 18 rounder in a while. Never miss a shell with a stock mag.....never. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Cool. Might try to get that done on that spare bolt I have laying around then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Adjusting the feed lips to allow the rounds to present higher accomplishes the same thing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Adjusting the feed lips to allow the rounds to present higher accomplishes the same thing Not in my case. The bolt was so messed up that RAAC got me a new one. Even after adjusting the feedlips, the bolt wasnt anywhere near picking up a round. New bolt ran fine until it cracked, so unless you guys start cranking out bolts or I get a new one from XN, trying to fix the original one that's not (yet) cracked is currently my only option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ToysRUs 8 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Jim, You know how different each gun is, On mine opening up the feed lips didnt present the shell high enough. Open the lips far enough and eventually they stop holding the shells. Lenghtening the tab fixed all the problems. Most particularly it fixed ever haveing to mess with the feed lips for higher presentation. Never again!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 I have several bolts that would never work as is, for the same reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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