highrailjon 0 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hi All!!!! I purchased and finally finished my Saiga 12!!!!! Now the bummer news. When I went to test fire ejected empty shell would drop right back in the receiver jamming it. I used these rounds plus some OO buck. I have the MD V-Plug which is set on the highest gas setting. Any tips? Thanks! Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Nemo 882 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 The box of shells says it all! I can only get 2 3/4 dram to function 50-70% of the time on factory ports. You need to use at least 3 dram loads for enough gas to cycle reliably. Stick with the Federal bulk packs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 How'd it shoot with the 00 buck? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
highrailjon 0 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 2 3/4 Winchester 00B was doing the same thing! Watch my video of a manual extraction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiuFGO3idJA It throws a loaded shell just fine... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0AH0cOlJjA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 How did it shoot before the conversion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Looks like a lot of weight was added to the front of the gun. That is usually a recipe for issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
highrailjon 0 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Never shot it before conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 What was the Dram of that 00 buck? If the box doesn't say give us the velocity and shot weight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Billybobf 50 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Is it sad I'm more interest in the adjuster for a coil over secondary spring? Lol jk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Put the factory hand guard back on it and reinstall the factory regulator and see if it still acts up. Some quad rails will bind up the gas tube and tweak the gas block, causing cycling issues (a kind of domino effect). What are all the parts you changed? Edited April 7, 2014 by Mullet Man 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Put the factory hand guard back on it and reinstall the factory regulator and see if it still acts up. Some quad rails will bind up the gas tube and tweak the gas block, causing cycling issues (a kind of domino effect). What are all the parts you changed? Might as well take the barrel shroud off as well. Also, go back to the factory mag, instead of the drum. Try to take out as many variables as you can. If it runs, add one element back at a time. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
highrailjon 0 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 I stripped it down last night and gave it a thorough cleaning and lubing. I also got a fair amount of gunk out of the 3 gas ports with a paper clip. Recommend a heavier target load to run through it, please. Thanks! Also, is it worth polishing the BCG? One other thing to note: where the piston is pinned to the carrier it has a slight wobble to it. Is this normal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 The wobble is normal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Walmart Federal Valuepaks at a minimum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Put the factory hammer back in and use the factory mag. If you didn't profile the hammer properly it will bind. start there with the quad rail off as well. good luck 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Molotov Cocktail 9 Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Hi All!!!! I purchased and finally finished my Saiga 12!!!!! Now the bummer news. When I went to test fire ejected empty shell would drop right back in the receiver jamming it. I used these rounds plus some OO buck. I have the MD V-Plug which is set on the highest gas setting. Any tips? Thanks! Jon 8 and 1/2 is pushing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sneaky 2 Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Sucks you don't have a pre conversion comparison. I had a similar sounding issue with mine when I installed a side mounted rail and put an eotech xps above the ejection port. What was happening was the round was ejecting just fine but it was hitting the sight and bouncing back into the chamber. Try it without the sight and then with the stock hand guard. Hopefully you may only have to move the red dot forward some Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Sucks you don't have a pre conversion comparison. I had a similar sounding issue with mine when I installed a side mounted rail and put an eotech xps above the ejection port. What was happening was the round was ejecting just fine but it was hitting the sight and bouncing back into the chamber. Try it without the sight and then with the stock hand guard. Hopefully you may only have to move the red dot forward some Yeah this can happen with certain optics/mounts in that position. Check out some slo-mo video of the S12 being fired and you'll see that the shells are ejected in a somewhat unusual manner. http://youtu.be/QB1o2isrCDI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 The rail can act as an energy sync, conducting kinetic energy away from the gas block. Some rails block the relief vent, left rear of the gas block. This creates additional resistance to the rearward movement of the piston. Also you are using 2 3/4 dram target loads. For rig like yours, use 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz. Loads. Stay away from Remington bulk pack, and target loads. It is usually weaker than Federal or Winchester ammo with the same speed rating. Good luck. Mike 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Hi All!!!! I purchased and finally finished my Saiga 12!!!!! Now the bummer news. When I went to test fire ejected empty shell would drop right back in the receiver jamming it. I used these rounds plus some OO buck. I have the MD V-Plug which is set on the highest gas setting. Any tips? Thanks! Jon 8 and 1/2 is pushing it. 8 and 1/2 has exactly NOTHIIIIIIING to do with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do people who have been around for a while still get confused about this. Shot size (and type) is irrelevant, whether powdered lead, birdshot, buckshot, or slugs. Brass height is completely and utterly irrelevant. Weight and Velocity are all that matters. Period. 8 1/2 is fine if there is enough of it and it is moving fast enough. This stuff is just moving too slowly. Probably the same is true for the buckshot if he got tactical stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Did anyone else watch the manual ejection vid? On all the fire arms I have had ejections issues with pistols rifles shotguns, if it was reliable it the ejector maintained FULL control of the spent round until it came in contact to the ejector. You should be able to stroke a spent round in and out of the chamber, all the way back to the ejector and never have the round fall out. If any did not do this, it was unreliable. Period. You can't HOPE the round comes back with the bolt. There is always a claw or foot or counter bore that the ejector clamps the base of the round against. Help him address that instead of assuming it's short stroking. The guy seems intelligent enough. Don't give him an automated voice recording of standard saiga fixes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Did anyone else watch the manual ejection vid? On all the fire arms I have had ejections issues with pistols rifles shotguns, if it was reliable it the ejector maintained FULL control of the spent round until it came in contact to the ejector. You should be able to stroke a spent round in and out of the chamber, all the way back to the ejector and never have the round fall out. If any did not do this, it was unreliable. Period. You can't HOPE the round comes back with the bolt. There is always a claw or foot or counter bore that the ejector clamps the base of the round against. Help him address that instead of assuming it's short stroking. The guy seems intelligent enough. Don't give him an automated voice recording of standard saiga fixes. Yeah, but it looked like it ejected properly and bounced back in because the shell was light. It's hard to be sure even at .25 speed, but it kind of looks like the empty might be bouncing off of his finger or just falling off with a light tap of the extractor. Under cycling the carrier would have more velocity. That should have no problem with a gun that has a proper gas/friction balance. The info given him was in direct response to the info he posted, and is still the likely answer to his situation. The ammo he posted, showed he needed the very standard information. It may be a common response to his questions, but it is the right one for the situation. I am mostly astounded that people still pass on wrong information about the topic nearly every time it comes up. It's not that hard to understand, and the regulars should know better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Did anyone else watch the manual ejection vid? On all the fire arms I have had ejections issues with pistols rifles shotguns, if it was reliable it the ejector maintained FULL control of the spent round until it came in contact to the ejector. You should be able to stroke a spent round in and out of the chamber, all the way back to the ejector and never have the round fall out. If any did not do this, it was unreliable. Period. You can't HOPE the round comes back with the bolt. There is always a claw or foot or counter bore that the ejector clamps the base of the round against. Help him address that instead of assuming it's short stroking. The guy seems intelligent enough. Don't give him an automated voice recording of standard saiga fixes. Yeah, but it looked like it ejected properly and bounced back in because the shell was light. It's hard to be sure even at .25 speed, but it kind of looks like the empty might be bouncing off of his finger or just falling off with a light tap of the extractor. Under cycling the carrier would have more velocity. That should have no problem with a gun that has a proper gas/friction balance. The info given him was in direct response to the info he posted, and is still the likely answer to his situation. The ammo he posted, showed he needed the very standard information. It may be a common response to his questions, but it is the right one for the situation. I am mostly astounded that people still pass on wrong information about the topic nearly every time it comes up. It's not that hard to understand, and the regulars should know better. I think you right on, and give accurate info. I know there is and endless supply of morons. Their first post is "bought a new saiga, pos won't cycle" never having read a single thread! I can see how frustrating it is to post solid info like you do,as it takes a lot of time and energy, only to have it never read. I just think sometimes out of frustration or redundancy the solution is given assuming the problem. I think we need to do a new sticky. From opening the box to finish race gun. With proper steps/troubleshooting. I know all this has been done just not easily accessable. Have step one clean gun. Step two blah blah. Then we can ask what step are you on. Send pics of that step or fuck off. Lol. Have one reference. "Ok I made to step 10 and cants seem to get past step 11" there is a best way to do everything, saiga's are no exception. Idk just a thought. I hate doing shit twice. It means you didn't do it right the first time. Having to repost is no exception. What do you guys think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Good idea. Send me a clean gun and I will make that thread. It's up to the mods whether or not to sticky it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Those BASTARDS!!! Lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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