Adjusting a scope

[Vgnope 8]

So I was at the range and I noticed that my sight picture was a bit off. As I am lined up with the target, the horizontal line of the crosshair was not level. I'm using a side mount rail with a 4x32 sight. Before adjusting the scope to level it out with the target, I had zeroed it in. After I unscrewed the screws that held on the scope, adjusted and fastened them my group was 3.5 inches left.

Now my question is that if I had tightened the 2 screws on each scope ring too tight will that effect the scope enough that it will not be able to adjust correctly. I didn't go balls tight on tightening the ring screws.

[DrThunder88 912]

I've heard (but can't confirm) that overtightening the rings is a more significant problem with cheaper scopes and rings.  Something about the compression being transmitted or transmitted unevenly through thinner tubes, messing with the internals.  Is the zero on your scope unstable now or is it holding the new zero (assuming you re-zeroed)?  And 3.5 inches at what range?

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Absolutely.

 

Get a torque wrench, saves untold misery. Doesnt have to be an expensive one. Comes in handy for all manner of uses.

Lot of good writeups and vids on doing it right out there.

[Long Shot 1,287]

^^this

An inch pound torque wrench from napa is worth it's weight. Lapping the rings is also very important even with cheap rings.

 

I doesn't take much to tweak a scope body from external force caused by the mount.

[Vgnope 8]

My grouping was set for 25yds and after I repositioned the scope the group was to the left. So few rounds more, and adjusting, got the target. The scope is holding true for now until I move it again.

Now for use with the side rail mount. Removing and putting it back on the rifle would that effect the zeroing? Not any screws invoved, just the quick release. It feels really stable with no slack/movement.

But for using an in/lb torque wrench, first I wouldn't know where to set the gauge, also I really don't know the durability of the scopes internals.

[bagman 2]

My grouping was set for 25yds and after I repositioned the scope the group was to the left. So few rounds more, and adjusting, got the target. The scope is holding true for now until I move it again.

Now for use with the side rail mount. Removing and putting it back on the rifle would that effect the zeroing? Not any screws invoved, just the quick release. It feels really stable with no slack/movement.

But for using an in/lb torque wrench, first I wouldn't know where to set the gauge, also I really don't know the durability of the scopes internals.

I too use a side mount for my scope.  So far it has held zero after removing and reattaching it several times.  It is a quality mount, a BP02.  Don't know what kind you are running so can't really predict how well it'll hold zero.

[thebuns1 4,323]

I use self adjusting QD mounts now to avoid the variable. It can definitely have an impact on your POI vs. your POA.

[Vgnope 8]

Another range day. I noticed no difference with the scope holding zero when removing and then remounting the scope today. My biggest disadvantage was the linear muzzle break/flash hider I installed. Don't know what to call it! Not accurate for 1.

As I fire a few rounds without the break, I'm grouping on target. I screw on the break and my groupings hit way off. My POI is 5" below, 2" right. But grouping tight. I then unscrew the break and my POI is back on center grouping tight.

After a few series of doing that, I'm wondering if the break is the way to go for now. Anybody else experience this?

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

The brake should not change POI at all.

 

Sounds like the bullet is contacting the brake. Sometimes you can see this as a spark.

[Vgnope 8]

I didn't notice any interference at the tip of the break or damage from a round striking the break. Even if it is just a slight scrape wouldn't there be some evidence of damage?

Upon measuring the break, the tips measurement measures the same size of the largest part of a casing, TUL steel casing that is. Question is .. When the round is fired does it expand, stretch, after it exits the barrel? If it does, will the expansion occur between/inside the break to swell enough to strike anything thereafter?

Here is one of my targets, the two lower holes are with the break. This is at 100yd. 

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Target says contact aint happening.

 

For some reason I envisioned an AK74 brake.

Err whats the weight on that brake?

More like a small can than a brake.

 

The bullet expands slightly to contact the rifling but its nothing like enough to cause a problem.

 

 

If the threading is off the brake can cause some problems or it can change barrel harmonics if it is stressing the barrel enough by over tightening or perhaps weight.

Got a smaller brake? Just asking.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Rhodes1968

[Vgnope 8]

Another range day. I kept the break on, did a little painting, swapping parts and adjusted the scope to POI @ 25yrds. The range I go to has wooden clothes pins to hold the targets up. 2 pins at top. With 2 rounds left....pins no more. We'll see what happens @ 100yrds now. Will I run into any compliance issues with having this break on while in this setup?

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

In the peoples republic? Man no idea.

[SmilinEd 364]

I use self adjusting QD mounts now to avoid the variable. It can definitely have an impact on your POI vs. your POA.

Captain,

Which self adjusting QD mounts are you using.???

 

If anyone else has a favorite that they would like to share I would appreciate your advice, I don't want to spend $150 apiece for the mount not yet , just going to mount TRS25's on the x39's  

 

TIA

 

Ed

[thebuns1 4,323]

Bobro is wha I have been using recently. Haven't had any issues as of yet.

http://www.bobroengineering.com/

 

There are many great products out there by several companies. I've become a fan of QD throw lever mounts, so long as they are made good.

[SmilinEd 364]

Bobro is wha I have been using recently. Haven't had any issues as of yet.

http://www.bobroengineering.com/

 

There are many great products out there by several companies. I've become a fan of QD throw lever mounts, so long as they are made good.

Thanks for the reply..

[Protectandserve 6]

Another range day. I kept the break on, did a little painting, swapping parts and adjusted the scope to POI @ 25yrds. The range I go to has wooden clothes pins to hold the targets up. 2 pins at top. With 2 rounds left....pins no more. We'll see what happens @ 100yrds now. Will I run into any compliance issues with having this break on while in this setup?

Looking at your rifle as pictured, does it have any type of bullet button?  The stock and detachable magazine makes it an assault weapon under CA law.  The brake is really only an issue if it is considered a muzzle flash hider.

 

The stock you have on is considered a pistol grip under the current law.  With that and a detachable mag you need a bullet button or tool to remove the magazine.  This is all assuming that you did not have this rifle registered as an assault weapon prior to the ban.

 

Here is the text from CA DOJ

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

1. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
   1. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
   2. A thumbhole stock.
   3. A folding or telescoping stock.
   4. A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
   5. A flash suppressor.
   6. A forward pistol grip.
2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
3. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

[imarangemaster 315]

OP, I am hoping that you took those pictures in "Free America".  As pictured, in California it is a Felony. The thumbhole stock makes it an unregistered Assault Weapon,  Good for 5 years in the big house.  I have that same stock, but only put it on when I am up in Oregon at my daughters or in Nevada at my best friend's place outside Elko.

 

Here is California legal:  The 30 rounders are legal for me, as I possessed them in California prior to the 1-1-2000 ban.  Unless your are around 30ish, it would be hard to make someone believe you had the high caps before that date IN CALIFORNIA.

 

Edited October 8, 2014 by imarangemaster

[Vgnope 8]

I do have fun with all I own. Whether in Ca or in free States, pictures do not define location, but only provide possession.

[G O B 3,516]

Many pictures also have the location where they were taken encoded, especially if you use a smart 'phone.

[imarangemaster 315]

VGNOPE, No problem from me, even though I am a retired California LEO.  Just trying to keep a fellow forum member out of a bind.  Oftentimes new members are unaware of the law.  

 

As I posted before, Here is my Kaliforncation legal Saiga

 

 

Here is my "Saganovstock" stock for when I am in Nevada or Oregon.  I actually like it as much as a standard "pistol grip where it should be" AK.

 

[Protectandserve 6]

Be very careful at some of the ranges if you go with that setup.  CA DOJ pulls some shady crap to snare people.  Also if you get car stopped with it on the way to or from the range you will likely get jammed up by the cops.

[toothandnail 275]

The brake should not change POI at all.

 

Sounds like the bullet is contacting the brake. Sometimes you can see this as a spark.

A brake/comp will most certianly change the POI, depending on the load.

I have had as much as 3" at 100yds, no comp = dead on , comp 2" high 1.5" left , had to "tune" the loads for that comp

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

 

The brake should not change POI at all.

 

Sounds like the bullet is contacting the brake. Sometimes you can see this as a spark.

A brake/comp will most certianly change the POI, depending on the load.

I have had as much as 3" at 100yds, no comp = dead on , comp 2" high 1.5" left , had to "tune" the loads for that comp

 

 

That would bother me as I have not seen it vary enough to worry over it.

When you say tune do you mean changing the powder load or type?

I use nothing but good quality AK74 types because well I am cheap but do love functional quality. 

Perhaps it is acting like a dampener?

[toothandnail 275]

Yes, changing the powder, burn rate, # of grains, bullet wt, all will have some effect. 

Also different comps will behave differently, I don't claim to understand exactaly why, barrel harmonics, different port locations all play into the equasion.

 

You may have 3 different comps, same load, that have no affect on the POI, the 4th one way off.

 

Just had a guy at tour range today installed a comp last night - changed his POI almost 4" low,  windage - no change.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Ah that sounds like what I am thinking that it changes harmonics.

 

I wonder even with the change in POI that accuracy is not affected?  ie... groups shift but size remain consistent?

I dont really tune loads for battle rifles any longer, learned what I needed and moved on, but I am interested in more precise platforms.

Have a plan for a braked boltie, Mossie MVP 308, that I will be tuning if the funds allow. 

 

I know people scoff but so far AK74 brakes of good quality, 35-50 bucks, do the job well. Yeah I know fugly.