Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 "What I witnessed on Saturday in Nevada was as heroic as it was sad. The heroism was on the part of the Bundy family and their supporters. The sad part was on the side of the BLM who felt it necessary to point M16 riffles at the American people for the sake of saving a rare turtle? I stood there with my camera and watched the protestors say a prayer. A feeling came over me. I sensed the situation was going to turn nasty. I could see conviction in their eyes; I could hear a nervousness in their voices. This was real and they were there to fight for more than cattle. They were fighting against a big government which tends to overreach and underserve. I did not want anyone to be hurt, myself included. And so I felt the situation needed someone to diffuse the bomb that was ready to explode. " http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/megyn-kelly-chilling-exclusive-behind-the-scenes-look-at-nevada-ranch-showdown Be sure to note the responce of .gov to his pleas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 How does the BLM make "laws" anyhow? are they just a regulatory agency making it up as they go along? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 ...yet another symptom of an out of control .gov full of jackbooted thugs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magsite20 1,664 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 just means Harry's son has to wait to sell that part of the country to China, but it will get done even at gun point. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 It's not over yet. They just wanted to calm the crowds down and let them think the people won. As soon as they blink, they will invade the compound and probably light it on fire or kill a mother holding a baby. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 87 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 That really makes you wonder. So much to be said, I like to think there is enough good ole decent people in this Country we won't let whats gonna happen - happen. Just so long as you know what side you stand on. Oh wait I heard a ping gotta go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 How does the BLM make "laws" anyhow? are they just a regulatory agency making it up as they go along? The can make any regulation they please, which are enforced as law. Hence we the people have zip for input. Nice to see someone stand up and say http://youtu.be/q_qgVn-Op7Q 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 This has zero to do with any desert tortoise, and a whole lot to do with Harry Reid and the State of Nevada making money. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Yeah Reid has some buddies in railway too, holding up the pipeline so they can have a monopoly on oil transport from Canada Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 The Bundy's are about as heroic as any illegal alien -- both are doing something against the law and flouting it. Bundy seems like a good God fearing man but I bet a lot of illegal aliens are also. It does nothing to mitigate him being in the wrong legally. And yes. I know, the law sucks and he is in the "right" to disobey it according to some. According to Bundy's logic he does not feel that Federal law applies to him. He picks and choses. Let's say someone saw your wife or daughter and felt like they did not have to follow laws and took matters into their own hands? Would you call them a patriot? I doubt it. I get it. I am probably the only person on this forum that sees things this way and will get a bunch of flack for it. So be it. I am as fed up as anyone with this intrusive junk that is going on but we can not successfully fight it via violence, illegality and hatred. Look at the examples history shows -- any revolution that was gained though mob violence has ultimately failed. How can we fight for our ideals -- a major one being the rule of law -- by ignoring them??? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sparky63 46 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 odd man why don't you call yourself GOD and get it over with 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Hard to say since we do not know the whole story Oddman. Ancestral claims and states rights claims are legit. Would you just bow down to what the feds said when they come for your stuff? BLM has made the determination that he is breaking laws, so why not just arrest him and go to trial and convict? Are they afraid they will lose the litigation? Why send a small army to take his possessions destroy his stuff? Why did they have planned protest sites where they could hide what they where really doing? I see your point to a certain extent, but in this case I think there's more to it..... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Oddman tell that to the resistors in Connecticut or New York. If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Don't forget that the BLM claimed to have been concerned about public safety, while keeping their rifles aimed at Americans. If they passed a law telling us to turn in our guns, does that make them right? Fuck no. They can fuck off and shove their laws up their ass. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I think it would be awesome to send someone a bill for land they lived on because I invented a rule that said they needed to pay me rent just because... that would be awesome! never mind getting a cut from the cartels, drugs and human smuggling on the same land.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Oddman can you quote the "law" Bundy broke, he did go against a regulation. I dont think he broke a "law". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 The Bundy's are about as heroic as any illegal alien -- both are doing something against the law and flouting it. Bundy seems like a good God fearing man but I bet a lot of illegal aliens are also. It does nothing to mitigate him being in the wrong legally. And yes. I know, the law sucks and he is in the "right" to disobey it according to some. According to Bundy's logic he does not feel that Federal law applies to him. He picks and choses. Let's say someone saw your wife or daughter and felt like they did not have to follow laws and took matters into their own hands? Would you call them a patriot? I doubt it. I get it. I am probably the only person on this forum that sees things this way and will get a bunch of flack for it. So be it. I am as fed up as anyone with this intrusive junk that is going on but we can not successfully fight it via violence, illegality and hatred. Look at the examples history shows -- any revolution that was gained though mob violence has ultimately failed. How can we fight for our ideals -- a major one being the rule of law -- by ignoring them??? When the laws are against you, and our constitution, how can anyone follow them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 The Bundy's are about as heroic as any illegal alien -- both are doing something against the law and flouting it. Bundy seems like a good God fearing man but I bet a lot of illegal aliens are also. It does nothing to mitigate him being in the wrong legally. And yes. I know, the law sucks and he is in the "right" to disobey it according to some. According to Bundy's logic he does not feel that Federal law applies to him. He picks and choses. Let's say someone saw your wife or daughter and felt like they did not have to follow laws and took matters into their own hands? Would you call them a patriot? I doubt it. I get it. I am probably the only person on this forum that sees things this way and will get a bunch of flack for it. So be it. I am as fed up as anyone with this intrusive junk that is going on but we can not successfully fight it via violence, illegality and hatred. Look at the examples history shows -- any revolution that was gained though mob violence has ultimately failed. How can we fight for our ideals -- a major one being the rule of law -- by ignoring them??? When the laws are against you, and our constitution, how can anyone follow them? The time for being law abiding is over, be content with being on the right side of principles. Rule of law means ALL laws applied justly to ALL men, is this government lawful? If not then what of the illegal laws? Think on this when your granddaughter is molested by TSA. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I typically agree with Stefan, today is no different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 The Bundy's are about as heroic as any illegal alien -- both are doing something against the law and flouting it. Bundy seems like a good God fearing man but I bet a lot of illegal aliens are also. It does nothing to mitigate him being in the wrong legally. And yes. I know, the law sucks and he is in the "right" to disobey it according to some. According to Bundy's logic he does not feel that Federal law applies to him. He picks and choses. Let's say someone saw your wife or daughter and felt like they did not have to follow laws and took matters into their own hands? Would you call them a patriot? I doubt it. I get it. I am probably the only person on this forum that sees things this way and will get a bunch of flack for it. So be it. I am as fed up as anyone with this intrusive junk that is going on but we can not successfully fight it via violence, illegality and hatred. Look at the examples history shows -- any revolution that was gained though mob violence has ultimately failed. How can we fight for our ideals -- a major one being the rule of law -- by ignoring them??? When the laws are against you, and our constitution, how can anyone follow them? The time for being law abiding is over, be content with being on the right side of principles. Rule of law means ALL laws applied justly to ALL men, is this government lawful? If not then what of the illegal laws? Think on this when your granddaughter is molested by TSA. As civilians and 'powerless' people, all we have left is principle. If our state was built on and continued to adhere to the true principle of law and order, I would have much more faith in it (and im not alone). However, the politically affluent and super rich are placed on a pedestals of immunity while the common man has to bear the full weight of the justice system. We will never see the violence, coercion, and corruption which is visited upon ordinary people, done so to the rulers at the top, no matter how many laws are broken or how many constitutional rights are violated. In this age of information, anyone who turns a blind eye to the discrepancies between the royals and the serfs, is a state propaganda success story. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) I can not quote the exact laws that Bundy is in violation of but what I know is this; 1. Bundy paid fees to graze his cattle on BLM land as 16000 other ranchers do until 1993. 2. Bundy has refused to pay said fees since that time. 3. Bundy still grazes his cattle on BLM/not his specific land. 4. Bundy has been brought to court to pay the delinquent fees -- and lost 5. Bundy has brought action in court to fight the fees -- and lost 6. Bundy has ignored all court injunctions to pay the delinquent fees. Also, 7. Bundy has said that he does not recognize the Federal government and 8. Bundy asserts that the only individual that has any power over him is the county Sheriff. Both 7 & 8 are directly contradicted in Bundy's own State's constitution thereby destroying any "legal", logical or moral standing he may assert. The following has been cut and pasted from the Constitution itself -- it can be found here :http://www.leg.state.nv.us/const/nvconst.html Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States Most importantly please read the following: Sec: 2. Purpose of government; paramount allegiance to United States. All political power is inherent in the people[.] Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair[,] subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existance [existence], and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority. The truth shall set you free... Oh, and Sparky, I may seem somewhat Godlike to you but all I am besides a totally sinful and flawed human being is not ignorant... Edited April 17, 2014 by Odd Man Out 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunboy69 50 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 From what I understand the turtle issue was resolved years ago, and they have so many now that they are euthanizing them. Ive heard different sides of the story regarding whether the land is federal or not. The issue for me is this. Why does every God damn department of our government have an armed force ready to kick in your door? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I can not quote the exact laws that Bundy is in violation of but what I know is this;........... Both 7 & 8 are directly contradicted in Bundy's own State's constitution thereby destroying any "legal", logical or moral standing he may assert. so, we have a ridiculous man defying ridiculous laws passed regulations enforced by a ridiculous regulatory committee with it's own army of contractors.. Sadly, this over reach is OUR fault as a Congress we the people voted in created the BLM by legislation in 1986 as a bureau within the Dept of the Interior. The legislation tasks them with "managing" all federal lands. The sweeping breadth of the language of the statute clearly passes an unconstitutional degree of "legislative" power to the BLM. However, if no one challenges it in court on that basis, shit just goes on as it always has. We may see desert tortoises feasting on the corpses of "ridiculous people" before it's all over with... coming to a town near you... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Hmm some 240 years ago this very same issue came up. Over bearing government, land fees and taxes etc. Some people stood up and won. If you think that any law or regulation written by some pin head should be followed without question, then you are ignorant. But I know you are not. Is it also not the law that the government itself must do things like pass budgets, not spy on people, give american citizens due course before they are killed? You can quote the constitution all you want to, those in power will just smile and nod and run you right over after they have wiped their ass with it. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I would doink Megyn Kelly... 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 From what I understand the turtle issue was resolved years ago, and they have so many now that they are euthanizing them. Ive heard different sides of the story regarding whether the land is federal or not. The issue for me is this. Why does every God damn department of our government have an armed force ready to kick in your door? +2million Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I can not quote the exact laws that Bundy is in violation of but what I know is this;........... Both 7 & 8 are directly contradicted in Bundy's own State's constitution thereby destroying any "legal", logical or moral standing he may assert. so, we have a ridiculous man defying ridiculous laws passed regulations enforced by a ridiculous regulatory committee with it's own army of contractors.. Sadly, this over reach is OUR fault as a Congress we the people voted in created the BLM by legislation in 1986 as a bureau within the Dept of the Interior. The legislation tasks them with "managing" all federal lands. The sweeping breadth of the language of the statute clearly passes an unconstitutional degree of "legislative" power to the BLM. However, if no one challenges it in court on that basis, shit just goes on as it always has. We may see desert tortoises feasting on the corpses of "ridiculous people" before it's all over with... coming to a town near you... For a long time, regulatory agencies have been created and laws have been passed above the heads of the people, which were not devised for the benefit of the people. This machine runs on autopilot, from the top. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nipper2u 101 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Leave it to Big John to lighten the mood with pictures! Haha! I think it is a slippery slope to defend either side here without acknowledging the rights\mindset of the other side. There is more to this story than can be summed up in a headline and personally I feel that Odd Man Out makes some valid points. Green energy, turtles, property rights, abuse of power, government acknowledgement - at this point the solution is in the middle that ultimately makes no one truly happy because everyone ends up having to compromise. Another story is the CO couple who had to sell their land to a bully government over “imminent domain” rights. For what it is worth, I feel that ideally you have to "win" by making the law work for you (or at least appear to) while winning public support as such. Which sucks it has to be played that way. It appears to me that is what our currently more liberal leaning government and judicial systems do time and time again successfully (yes, I know they have done it in an abusive and sometimes illegal way). Unfortunately I fear the elected officials who support my mindset don't have the numbers, smarts, brazenness, or even public perception to win at the same game which is why getting people to vote who agree with me is important. Also, I am not saying any of them can be truly trusted. While I am certainly not saying the government hasn't overstepped its bounds and doesn't have alternative and lucrative motives it is willing to acheive through nefarious means - in this case I have yet to be convinced the farmer is totally in the right either. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magsite20 1,664 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) I don't think this is about Bundy being right or wrong anymore. I think what we're seeing is people are getting to a stage where a flash point is going to push some over the edge. After the fire cools the BLM will be back (maybe they should, I'm not going into the right or wrong) and maybe the supporters will be back armed or not. I'll bet the BLM will be better prepared when they return to deal with a bunch of people armed or not coming to the area. Biggest thing is there are more and more people looking for a fight with the government and it will happen and people will get killed. Might not be this time but it's coming. Anytime Americans are pointing guns at each other there are no real winners it's a loss for everyone. Edited April 17, 2014 by the 4th Doctor 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Every federal agency created to "help" us has an enforcement arm. Even the Dept of Agriculture, Post Office, and Social Security Administration have swat teams. "They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." Daniel Webster. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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