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Lets lighten this up...  

I could give a shit one way or the other about Bundy.  I don't see him as either hero or villian.  I do give him credit for standing up against tyranny, but he also had selfish motives for doing so.

Once all positions have been clearly stated all that remains is repeating ourselves and name calling.

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I am not saying that the laws are correct or the government is acting correctly. I am trying to get across two things.

1. Yes we need to do something to reign in the monster that government has become but illegality, violence and hatred is not the way it will happen successfully.

2. Bundy is being made out to be something he is not.

 

That's my argument in a nutshell.

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I am not saying that the laws are correct or the government is acting correctly. I am trying to get across two things.

1. Yes we need to do something to reign in the monster that government has become but illegality, violence and hatred is not the way it will happen successfully.

2. Bundy is being made out to be something he is not.

 

That's my argument in a nutshell.

Mr. Bundy will be made out to be a scapegoat one way or the other. The issue here is this and this alone:

The current administration and pretty much the govt.process we have been brainwashed to accept over the past several decades is immensely corrupt and unacceptable as it was originally conceived. Unconstitutional laws are passed everyday, corrupt judges support these illegalities, the media support the lies, the govt. breaks the law endlessly it seems and lies to the citizenry daily, and the police are militarized and they all get away with it. Woe be to you and only you if you go against this or speak out because you are then labeled by the previous groups as a racist, homophobe--fill in the blank. Your rights are only privileges that someone who could care less about you determines if you can have them and ironically, the EXACT situation currently at hand and the tyranny being perpetrated against the non-sleeping population is no different than what was experienced in the 1700's. Substitute "The Crown" with the current administration and you may better understand why the constitution and subsequent bill of rights was drafted.

Learn from history or repeat it. I am afraid we will be repeating it because the push to turn the USA into a communist, banana republic is in full swing.

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I am not saying that the laws are correct or the government is acting correctly. I am trying to get across two things.

1. Yes we need to do something to reign in the monster that government has become but illegality, violence and hatred is not the way it will happen successfully.

2. Bundy is being made out to be something he is not.

 

That's my argument in a nutshell.

You are correct as we only have the media tell us stories full on conjecture and lies. Fox pimped him up as a real hero fighting for his ranch, CNN tended to stick with their masters side.

 

I think we see a lot of the same things.

 

The government owns 80% of it primarily because of the test sites, goes back to the forties. Most people would not want that land anyway. Seems kind of silly to me to have to pay the feds to have cattle keep the grass down and re fertilize the land, while being a steward for it. Seems they should be paying him. Of course they have already spent 4 million to try and get the one million he supposedly owes.

 

If I owed the government one million, some how I think I would be in jail.

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I am not saying that the laws are correct or the government is acting correctly. I am trying to get across two things.

1. Yes we need to do something to reign in the monster that government has become but illegality, violence and hatred is not the way it will happen successfully.

2. Bundy is being made out to be something he is not.

 

That's my argument in a nutshell.

Mr. Bundy will be made out to be a scapegoat one way or the other. The issue here is this and this alone:

The current administration and pretty much the govt.process we have been brainwashed to accept over the past several decades is immensely corrupt and unacceptable as it was originally conceived. Unconstitutional laws are passed everyday, corrupt judges support these illegalities, the media support the lies, the govt. breaks the law endlessly it seems and lies to the citizenry daily, and the police are militarized and they all get away with it. Woe be to you and only you if you go against this or speak out because you are then labeled by the previous groups as a racist, homophobe--fill in the blank. Your rights are only privileges that someone who could care less about you determines if you can have them and ironically, the EXACT situation currently at hand and the tyranny being perpetrated against the non-sleeping population is no different than what was experienced in the 1700's. Substitute "The Crown" with the current administration and you may better understand why the constitution and subsequent bill of rights was drafted.

Learn from history or repeat it. I am afraid we will be repeating it because the push to turn the USA into a communist, banana republic is in full swing.

 

Acouple points for you to consider;

 

How can Bundy ever be a scapegoat when he is rebelling against the Nevada Constitution that he professes to hold dear?  In reality he is just another person who is legally in debt and is refusing to pay.  Idealism be damned on this, he is just another deadbeat.

 

Yup, agree with you that big government is acting badly and needs a vast revision but the revision needs to be done legally and peacefully.  We need to view the other side as fellow Americans and always treat them that way with the respect we would want.  Maybe not even if they deserve it but because we must mirror the principles we are trying to re establish.  The reactions of the protestors at the Bundy ranch to the BLM withdrawal smacked to me of a right wing version occupy wallstreet group.  If we want America to be better than it is, we need to be better than that.

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Scapegoat:

An individual, group or country singled out for unmerited negative treatment or blame.

 


 


 


  In reality he is just another person who is legally in debt and is refusing to pay.  Idealism be damned on this, he is just another deadbeat.

 

 

 

There you go. While I agree that non violence is always the higher route, Govt. entities have absolutely no compunction in shooting you and your family and destroying your property in order to get their way. This has happened many times already the world over.

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It was sad. As much as those agents pointing weapons at unarmed civilians was deplorable, it was equally deplorable to see civilians pointing weapons back at them. I can honestly not remember ever seeing the country this polarized ever in my 45 years alive. I don't even know who to blame? I guess we are all responsible for not putting our collective feet down years ago and limiting federal power when we still could.

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It was sad. As much as those agents pointing weapons at unarmed civilians was deplorable, it was equally deplorable to see civilians pointing weapons back at them. I can honestly not remember ever seeing the country this polarized ever in my 45 years alive. I don't even know who to blame? I guess we are all responsible for not putting our collective feet down years ago and limiting federal power when we still could.

here's some starting points

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post-26137-0-49972700-1397772644.jpg

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It was sad. As much as those agents pointing weapons at unarmed civilians was deplorable, it was equally deplorable to see civilians pointing weapons back at them. I can honestly not remember ever seeing the country this polarized ever in my 45 years alive. I don't even know who to blame? I guess we are all responsible for not putting our collective feet down years ago and limiting federal power when we still could.

It is not deplorable for citizens to stand up against oppressive government.

 

Governments follow a predictable path.  Those in power always believe themselves more worthy than those they are supposed to serve.  Each generation becomes more comfortable with infringements the previous generation would not have stood for.

 

The only difference between America and every country that has come before is the 2nd Amendment.  This country won it's freedom by force of arms and if it comes to it some of us will defend it with force of arms. 

 

If the government believes there are enough patriots (who they will of course call anything but patriots), then freedom prevails without firing a shot.

 

It is only when the government believes that the people are either unwilling or unable to defend their freedom that they will act with naked force.

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Idealism be damned on this, he is just another deadbeat.

 Okay so arrest him then

 

 

Let's hope that happens peacefully.  If he continues to force the issue, that seems to be the logical outcome.

Scapegoat:

An individual, group or country singled out for unmerited negative treatment or blame.

 

 

 

  In reality he is just another person who is legally in debt and is refusing to pay.  Idealism be damned on this, he is just another deadbeat.

 

 

 

There you go. While I agree that non violence is always the higher route, Govt. entities have absolutely no compunction in shooting you and your family and destroying your property in order to get their way. This has happened many times already the world over.

So what?!? That is the way of this world.  It is up to each one of us to decide if we will be better than that and transcend the mediocrity of the present to birth the greatness of the future.  Wow! sorry for the over reaching rhetoric but according to my moral teaching I need to turn the other cheek -- always.  Okay, for all you heathens out there, here is your chance for some toilet level humor...

 

P.S. My future is forever so I might have a different outlook than yours. ;  )

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Idealism be damned on this, he is just another deadbeat.

 Okay so arrest him then

 

 

Let's hope that happens peacefully.  If he continues to force the issue, that seems to be the logical outcome.

Scapegoat:

An individual, group or country singled out for unmerited negative treatment or blame.

 

 

 

  In reality he is just another person who is legally in debt and is refusing to pay.  Idealism be damned on this, he is just another deadbeat.

 

 

 

There you go. While I agree that non violence is always the higher route, Govt. entities have absolutely no compunction in shooting you and your family and destroying your property in order to get their way. This has happened many times already the world over.

So what?!? That is the way of this world. 

 

huh.png

 

Spoken like a true hippie. naaaa.gif

 

Dont worry fellas, our government loves us.

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It was sad. As much as those agents pointing weapons at unarmed civilians was deplorable, it was equally deplorable to see civilians pointing weapons back at them. I can honestly not remember ever seeing the country this polarized ever in my 45 years alive. I don't even know who to blame? I guess we are all responsible for not putting our collective feet down years ago and limiting federal power when we still could.

No its not deplorable, it exactly what the Founding Fathers envisioned, the People able to resist a tyrannical government.

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It was sad. As much as those agents pointing weapons at unarmed civilians was deplorable, it was equally deplorable to see civilians pointing weapons back at them. I can honestly not remember ever seeing the country this polarized ever in my 45 years alive. I don't even know who to blame? I guess we are all responsible for not putting our collective feet down years ago and limiting federal power when we still could.

No its not deplorable, it exactly what the Founding Fathers envisioned, the People able to resist a tyrannical government.

 

I was proud of them.

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It is the "something" that is important.  People have been willing to die for all sorts of unrelated reasons from the omen of a coming spaceship to the death of the Third Reich.  I have been and remain willing to die for the safety of my family and Freedom but I will never be a lemming in the pursuit of doing so.  If the time comes I will forfeit my life in its defense with the full and complete knowledge of why it needs to happen.

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Idealism be damned on this, he is just another deadbeat.

 Okay so arrest him then

 

 

Let's hope that happens peacefully.  If he continues to force the issue, that seems to be the logical outcome.

Scapegoat:

An individual, group or country singled out for unmerited negative treatment or blame.

 

 

 

  In reality he is just another person who is legally in debt and is refusing to pay.  Idealism be damned on this, he is just another deadbeat.

 

 

 

There you go. While I agree that non violence is always the higher route, Govt. entities have absolutely no compunction in shooting you and your family and destroying your property in order to get their way. This has happened many times already the world over.

So what?!? That is the way of this world.  It is up to each one of us to decide if we will be better than that and transcend the mediocrity of the present to birth the greatness of the future.  Wow! sorry for the over reaching rhetoric but according to my moral teaching I need to turn the other cheek -- always.  Okay, for all you heathens out there, here is your chance for some toilet level humor...

 

P.S. My future is forever so I might have a different outlook than yours. ;  )

 

Oddman, Sir, Dude did you just call me a heathen?

 

My future is what ever I want it to be. I can transcend to what ever I want be. Some of us started from absolute shit and made something of ourselves. So we know what it takes. If you are confined to your moral teachings and are unbending in them, I feel sorrow for you. Learning never ends until you die. If your still alive and not learning, you are not living.

 

I do not not turn the other cheek, my up bringing taught me that is just a way to get hit.

 

Do you actually think you can fathom, understand God? The one who made the universe? Really?

 

Keep coming though, I enjoy your rhetoric.

 

Sorry folks but this might be the one that puts it in the basement...........

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Oddman, Sir, Dude did you just call me a heathen?  

 

 

 

 

I'm not surprised when "brotherly love" comes in the form of condescension and name calling.  I grew up southern baptist.  I know just how brotherly love works.

 

Everybody that didn't go to that church was going to hell, and half of those that did were going too.  I like to call it "My Way or the Hell Way."

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Dad, not the basement but going up...

 

Heathen Warning -- the following is Godtalk -- Heathen Warning

 

Nope, I don't pretend to know the mind of God.  I am like a very small child in that regard and can spend the rest of my life learning His precepts.  What I know so far (beyond the obvious thing about His Son...)  is that God loves each and every one of us on this planet, he has no favorites because we all are whether we know Him or not.  He wants us to be good and do the right things always.  He wants us to turn away from evil and to Him.  And I could go on but you get the gist. 

 

As I get older (turn 60 next month) I am more and more taking the long view of things.  Many of the things that were imperative are less so.  I don't need to thump my chest and prove much of anything.  I am who I am and always struggle towards who I want to be (a person that can hug my Lord when I see him without shame).  The Lord's precepts are antithetical to what our society teaches and that I suppose is one reason my views are being so opposed.  It is so easy to get lost in this world and not see the true reality of Life.

 

Heathen Warning -- Over

 

P.S.  Heathen is used in a joking fashion (Duh).  One has to wonder why it so chafes some???

Edited by Odd Man Out
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Yay normal text, you rock Oddman.

 

I can't even think child like. The being who created what we see now is beyond me and the 7.5 billion others on this rock. However I get where you are at. I am 10 years behind you and feel the same " I am who I am" and life is a struggle. I almost wish it where a couple of hundred years ago. You had to work to provide or you died. A contract was a hand shake and a word was bond. That actually seems easier than today's world.

 

Would be a good conversation over coffee and pie.

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Bundy is wrong.  The courts upheld his wrongness twice.  If he didn't like it, he should have pursued it to a higher court.

 

 

That said... The BLM... outta their fuckin minds with snipers, tasers, and shit.  This makes them wrong.

 

Odd Man...  Right on a lot of this.  I've enjoyed watching you guys bust his balls.  But, I certainly understand what he is saying.  I will agree that this is certainly not the stand that I would kill or die for.  Just too much unknown, and the fact that Bundy at one time paid the grazing fees bothers me.

 

Harry Reid....  I finally found a good use for BLM snipers.

 

Saigus...  I always look forward to his point to view and share most, if not all of them.

 

Big John...  Fucking genius!


Ok, now you've gone and fucked up my whole train of thought.  That fuckin cocksucker needs to keep his overreaching scumbag fuckin self out of it.  If there is any blood shed, this is the kind of bull shit that will start it.

Fucking mother fucker.  

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If you take just one article of the "long train of abuses" from the Declaration, one could say the crown had every right to enforce it's will and the colonists were wrong to take up arms.

 

"He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good."

 

Would not seem a matter worthy of a violent rebellion would it.

 

Think about it.

 

We indeed have suffered a very long train.

 

 

As for Reid...

http://www.reviewjournal.com/politics/reid-calls-bundy-supporters-domestic-terrorists

Edited by Rhodes1968
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If you take just one article of the "long train of abuses" from the Declaration, one could say the crown had every right to enforce it's will and the colonists were wrong to take up arms.

 

"He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good."

 

Would not seem a matter worthy of a violent rebellion would it.

 

Think about it.

 

We indeed have suffered a very long train.

 

 

As for Reid...

http://www.reviewjournal.com/politics/reid-calls-bundy-supporters-domestic-terrorists

You guys are sure making it tough for me to not be behind this guy.

 

While the thought of rebellion sounds great against any part of this regime.  Especially that fucking douche Harry Reid.  I've likened this to Bundy coming to me saying that his dog has been shitting on my lawn since the 1800's.  All the while dog shit laws, and ownership has changed on my property, but he's still intent on having his dog shit on my property because his family has been doing before my home was built and that's just how it's gonna be.  Not gonna fly with me for a minute.

 

This is a tough one for me.  I really want to go woo-hoo, someone standing up for something they believe in.  But I just keep going back to the fact that he took this to court twice and lost.  Assuming the courts were not corrupt.  I follow laws and so should he.

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