... heroic as it was sad

[Big John! 2,062]

Unfortunate reports concerning some "celebrities" in the liberty movement:

Report from the ground-

 

http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2014/04/bundy-aar-from-ground.html

 

Of course the truth always comes out, will look forward to it.

I met a guy at the range yesterday that claimed to be part of one of the 3% militia's.  I found his banter to be disturbing.  He seemed like a decent guy.  Though a bit on the weird side.  I guess what may have bothered me the most is that this is what we are coming down to.  He claimed to have been in Nevada with the Bundy's.  He also said that this militia was all military, I assumed mostly ex.  He said that they would never fire the first shot, but were very prepared to fire in retaliation and that they were armed to the teeth.  

 

The precedent has been set now.  The toothpaste can not go back in the tube.  We will see more standoff's like this and it is only a short matter of time before something like this leads to blood shed.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

From photo and other evidence there exists suspicion many of the BLM uniforms were being filled by mercs.

 

Truth will out eventually but that one is important. Lets hope not.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

 

Unfortunate reports concerning some "celebrities" in the liberty movement:

Report from the ground-

 

http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2014/04/bundy-aar-from-ground.html

 

Of course the truth always comes out, will look forward to it.

I met a guy at the range yesterday that claimed to be part of one of the 3% militia's.  I found his banter to be disturbing.  He seemed like a decent guy.  Though a bit on the weird side.  I guess what may have bothered me the most is that this is what we are coming down to.  He claimed to have been in Nevada with the Bundy's.  He also said that this militia was all military, I assumed mostly ex.  He said that they would never fire the first shot, but were very prepared to fire in retaliation and that they were armed to the teeth.  

 

The precedent has been set now.  The toothpaste can not go back in the tube.  We will see more standoff's like this and it is only a short matter of time before something like this leads to blood shed.

 

 

Hate that, always get a bad vibe from that situation.

 

If true hes talking about something he shouldnt and if not what the hell is his game?

Either wouldnt speak well of the guy.

 

Heh another reason to get the left most position at the range.

[magsite20 1,664]

So what's the latest from Nevada?

Nothing new in this:

Blackjack is one of the slowest ways to loose your money.

Pointing guns at people is one of the fastest ways to loose your freedom and maybe your life.

[pjj342 632]

 

 

 Also just because our corrupt "leaders" chose 
to ignore the law does not make laws any less valid.  Laws are laws until 
changed and many indeed need change or repeal but until that time happens making 
the argument that just because someone doesn't follow it then I don't have to is 
not well thought out and would only further weaken our great country.
 

  This is the thinking that keeps the status quo stagnant:  'We need to work within the corrupted system, to improve the corrupted system, or risk losing the corrupted system.'  

  Inside the box answers for outside the box problems.  More state is not the fix for out of control statism.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Boomsick42

[Spartacus 1,619]

 

 

The federal government has a lot more firepower and they didn't hesitate to incinerate the Branch Davidians and machine gun those who escaped the fire.

 

Not trying to pick a fight here, just need to be educated.  Haven't heard of the machine gunning survivor part, could you provide some proof on that?  Also, while the whole ending was a shambles (understatement), I also have not heard of government planning to deliberately incinerate the occupants of the place. 

 

 

 

The documentary "Waco: Rules of Engagement" was very eye opening.

They had FLIR footage from a helo showing full auto weapons fire into the burning building.

 

David Koresh may have been a criminal nutcase, but the gov. were the mass murderers in this event.

 

 

http://youtu.be/-4scgRAJxWc

Edited April 21, 2014 by Spartacus

[storm6490 2,768]

The Bundy's are about as heroic as any illegal alien -- both are doing something against the law and flouting it.  Bundy seems like a good God fearing man but I bet a lot of illegal aliens are also.  It does nothing to mitigate him being in the wrong legally.

 

And yes. I know, the law sucks and he is in the "right" to disobey it according to some.  According to Bundy's logic he does not feel that Federal law applies to him.  He picks and choses.  Let's say someone saw your wife or daughter and felt like they did not have to follow laws and took matters into their own hands?  Would you call them a patriot? I doubt it.

 

I get it.  I am probably the only person on this forum that sees things this way and will get a bunch of flack for it.  So be it.  I am as fed up as anyone with this intrusive junk that is going on but we can not successfully fight it via violence, illegality and hatred.  Look at the examples history shows -- any revolution that was gained though mob violence has ultimately failed. 

 

How can we fight for our ideals -- a major one being the rule of law -- by ignoring them???

You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it and hope that you will try to learn more on States rights. The power is from the people who allow the states to operate. They are in control of their territory. The feds have a limited role and have far exceeded this. In this situation, the county cops had the power to tell the feds to get the hell off the land and leave the family alone. The gov was a punk and did nothing to protect his people in the state. This is a state matter and the feds are trying to STEAL state land and slut it out to corporations for mining.

 

How do we fight? They already did and the feds never listened so this was the result. They didn't just start fignting with protest, they did everything they could before violence.

 

These ARE NOT LAWS, they are policy. It has nothing to do with common law or biblical law. It's codified statute, directives and all sorts of other things that were never intended to be applied to a man or woman. They are using corporate law and statute to go against a living human. It's bullshit.

 

What are true laws? Where do they come from? Does your state operate under common laws of england like in my state of Montana? Are they using other statutes and codes to create the illusion of law in your state?

[storm6490 2,768]

 

Unfortunate reports concerning some "celebrities" in the liberty movement:

Report from the ground-

 

http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2014/04/bundy-aar-from-ground.html

 

Of course the truth always comes out, will look forward to it.

I met a guy at the range yesterday that claimed to be part of one of the 3% militia's.  I found his banter to be disturbing.  He seemed like a decent guy.  Though a bit on the weird side.  I guess what may have bothered me the most is that this is what we are coming down to.  He claimed to have been in Nevada with the Bundy's.  He also said that this militia was all military, I assumed mostly ex.  He said that they would never fire the first shot, but were very prepared to fire in retaliation and that they were armed to the teeth.  

 

The precedent has been set now.  The toothpaste can not go back in the tube.  We will see more standoff's like this and it is only a short matter of time before something like this leads to blood shed.

 

The guy is full of shit. True Militia won't come out and say shit like, "I'm in the 3%". They will not tell you about plans and action. They will be in shape and blend in like everybodyelse. They will not wear camo in public. You will never know unless you join one or need their help when UN troops roll into your town.

[james lambert 3,059]

Militas seem to attract mall ninjas, and the wrong crowd along with the right crowd.

 

The ones that count are just normal responsible people.

One moron in the mix can spell disaster.

Real men would not dont brag about such things.

Jim

[magsite20 1,664]

I have too much pride to join a militia that would take someone like me.

 

a lot of the "militia" members I've seen don't look like they could handle a game of capture the flag against a troop of boy scouts let alone perform some type of real operation.

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

Stryker

I'm responding to your quote:

"You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it and hope that you will try to learn more on States rights. The power is from the people who allow the states to operate. They are in control of their territory."

 

It seems as if your are espousing the theory that each individual can interpret any and all laws if they are to apply to them.  Is this the same as the "Sovereign Citizen" movement? How does one prevent chaos if each can decide what laws they do or do not follow? Who sets a standard?

 

My point in going back and forth is to try and bring a different thought process into the equation.  It seems that most are fed up with the overbearing government practices (as am I) but the difference between most and myself is that I do not want violence and see that the only thing that violence will achieve is the further downfall of our great nation.  Sure when necessary take a stand, literally but with compassion and understanding that the people on the other side are citizens of our great nation also.  If we lose that and see the other side as only faceless enemies we will have already lost the fight and the cause (defending Freedom????) will become moot.

[Ruffian72 548]

You really don't know the mind set of the gov goon, Do you?? Under 10% question, or quit do to ethics/morals. Everyone is the enemy, if persons (children killed/property destroyed) no remorse. Fallow orders, take out the target. Protect the "System" that fills your food bowl and gives you the protected "God" status. Very seldom is a Fed team sent to protect public, it's sent to strike fear and set examples. From Gibson guitar to dairy farmers selling natural milk.

The guys in battle gear are NOT law enforcement officers. They are enforcers/shock troops. Take out all who oppose when order given. Rules of engagement are very liberal and protected and justified Always.

[thebuns1 4,323]

 

 

 

 

My point in going back and forth is to try and bring a different thought process into the equation.  It seems that most are fed up with the overbearing government practices (as am I) but the difference between most and myself is that I do not want violence and see that the only thing that violence will achieve is the further downfall of our great nation.  Sure when necessary take a stand, literally but with compassion and understanding that the people on the other side are citizens of our great nation also.  If we lose that and see the other side as only faceless enemies we will have already lost the fight and the cause (defending Freedom????) will become moot.

 

Not many people want violence OMO, but I must ask, do you think that the BLM would have done what they done if nobody would have showed up with guns? The simple fact that people did show up with weapons and willing to use them should the need arise, speaks for itself. They would have kept abusing the people there if they hadnt showed up, or worse. I dont think that the people wanted violence 239 years ago either when our forefathers fought for independence, but it was necessary. The crown didnt give a shit about the peasants living here, or their interests, but listened with open ears when they started fighting back, and winning battles. I see a lot of similarities with our current regime when compared to King George's reign of tyranny. They both seem to think we exist to provide for them, and not the other way around.

 

Its hard for me have sympathy for someone turning their guns on unarmed civilians. Feds or not, they deserve whats coming to them. I can think of a lot of shit stains that are citizens of our land that deserve a bullet. Just look at our prison system. The "other side" may be citizens also, but if they're not with us, theyre against us. They are also not bound by the same laws we are, but instead have a clean license to kill, and walk.

Lon Horiuchi

He killed Vicki Weaver. He was a citizen. They could care less about us OMO. That is the measure of their resolve. They know right from wrong, but choose to stay on the immoral end, and look for ways to justify they shitty actions. Citizen or not, they chose their side.

 

And for the militia, I know several and they are all great guys. Most are former military, and much more capable than most of these pansy ass feds hiding behind riot gear. The dude big john posted about was a fake, and probably devotes more time to masturbating than he does the cause of liberty.

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

The situation that occurred at the Bundy ranch could have been taken care of without weapons and to be quite cynical would have done a much better job.  Either the television cameras would have seen a peaceful unarmed crowd being confronted by a heavily armed group who had no reason to use force on them or, heaven forbid violence broke out from the BLM, the sight of a peaceful unarmed crowd being shot by the other side would do so much more to motivate the masses to side with us.  

 

Let's say that a firefight, with casualties on both sides -- or if a "win" were to occur a complete wiping out of the BLM crew was televised, how would that would be perceived by the general population?  Would it drive more people towards our way of thinking or not.  Remember that the vast majority of folks do not have military experience and have no understanding of violence.  I can almost see independents instantaneously siding with the libs for immediate harsh gun restrictions. 

 

No, violence is only an answer when all other remedies have been tried.  Those that call for violence are not doing our cause or our country any good.  It is an easy thing to do but so is starting a fire in a forest and both activities can grow out of control with devastating unplanned results.

 

Finally for those that are interested, here is why I will not support those that espouse violence against our fellow citizens,  Matthew 25 through 27:

 

…25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.…

[Juggernaut 11,054]

 

Finally for those that are interested, here is why I will not support those that espouse violence against our fellow citizens,  Matthew 25 through 27:

 

…25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.…

you forgot to site chapter, homeboy! chapter 16.

also, it's a bit out of context. it's referring to living your life for Christ vs living out your personal (or political) desires...

if what you are doing with your life is good for others, or yourself... not so much about shootin' some thug in the eye that wants to rob another man for political gain..

[gunman1 1,753]

I mentioned the Weaver family (Ruby Ridge), and the Branch Dividians in a brief conversation with one of my brother in-laws last night, he kinda glossed over and asked who I was talking about in a slightly condescending manner, I described the murder of the Weavers and the mass murder of the Branch Dividians, he said Yeah...I kinda remember that. I told him that too many Americans have conveniently short memories, that we have allowed the jackboots to condition us into submission. He said that if the gubmit wants to kill you there is just nothing you can do about it. I told him that I intend to die standing if it ever comes to that, and I would defend my family (even him) to last dying breath. The conversation came to an abrupt close.

 

I really wish the name Lon Horiuchi hadn't come up, but I realize it is natural in this context, my blood will boil for days now...these murderous motherfuckers.

[thebuns1 4,323]

The situation that occurred at the Bundy ranch could have been taken care of without weapons and to be quite cynical would have done a much better job.  Either the television cameras would have seen a peaceful unarmed crowd being confronted by a heavily armed group who had no reason to use force on them or, heaven forbid violence broke out from the BLM, the sight of a peaceful unarmed crowd being shot by the other side would do so much more to motivate the masses to side with us.  

 

I agree. It could have, and it should have. They completely over reacted on their end, and should have handled the situation much better than they did.

 

 

 

Let's say that a firefight, with casualties on both sides -- or if a "win" were to occur a complete wiping out of the BLM crew was televised, how would that would be perceived by the general population?  Would it drive more people towards our way of thinking or not.  Remember that the vast majority of folks do not have military experience and have no understanding of violence.  I can almost see independents instantaneously siding with the libs for immediate harsh gun restrictions. 

Thats hard to say. People will perceive things differently. If you can take away the retarded media from spewing lies and misleading information, then Id say the people would likely side with freedom, or I would hope so. Afterall, if it was a firefight over this, that would be a little harsh punishment for not paying fines/fees, wouldnt you think? But its not the case and the ball can easily roll the other way. Divide and conquer. They seem to being doing a very good job at it these past few years.

 

 

But as for violence, I feel thats going to vary, depending upon who you ask. But at the rate our regime is going, it could very easily come to that, sadly.

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

I would still go back to "If he has broken the law and owes fines, Why has he not been arrested?" That would be the simplest way to end it. Instead of paying 4 million just to have your ass handed to you.

 

I really hope the western states go after that fed ass like they have talked it up the last week. Hopefully the pebble was on a steep enough slope to keep it going.

 

Keep talking about it to those who will listen. Need to keep it fresh to November, just to disappoint the dems.

[Spartacus 1,619]

The situation that occurred at the Bundy ranch could have been taken care of without weapons and to be quite cynical would have done a much better job. ..................

 

Not in my opinion.

 

If the citizens hadn't shown up in armed force, I think BLM would have ordered up some Greyhound buses and carted them off to county jail.

The gov. has shown many times, they will push just as far as people let them.

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

 

 

Finally for those that are interested, here is why I will not support those that espouse violence against our fellow citizens,  Matthew 25 through 27:

 

…25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.…

you forgot to site chapter, homeboy! chapter 16.

also, it's a bit out of context. it's referring to living your life for Christ vs living out your personal (or political) desires...

if what you are doing with your life is good for others, or yourself... not so much about shootin' some thug in the eye that wants to rob another man for political gain..

 

Never claimed to be a biblical scholar...  but does living your life for Christ mean picking up a gun and shooting others?  I can't see Christ justifying that.  We are all God's creations -- life is paramount.

 

The situation that occurred at the Bundy ranch could have been taken care of without weapons and to be quite cynical would have done a much better job. ..................

 

Not in my opinion.

 

If the citizens hadn't shown up in armed force, I think BLM would have ordered up some Greyhound buses and carted them off to county jail.

The gov. has shown many times, they will push just as far as people let them.

 

With the numbers that showed up, if all were peaceful and unarmed and being filmed as they moved slowly towards the pens, They would have been successful.  Unless you are trying to assert that the BLM guys would have open fire?  Who do you think would have won then?

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

You really don't know the mind set of the gov goon, Do you??

 

Actually I do.  I am a student of history and one area that fascinates me is the "how" of the holocaust.  It wasn't demons or devils that killed all those people but ordinary German people.  In fact there were German Police Battalions employed in the Final Solution.  What I have found is that those ordinary people were brainwashed with a constant drumbeat of the us versus them until ordinary people did not see the people they were killing as fellow people but as untermensch.  To a small degree this us/them dichotomy is being perpetuated here in the U.S. by both sides.  Look at the drivel of Harry Reid and some of the things people on our side are saying such as this: "Feds or not, they deserve whats coming to them.  The "other side" may be citizens also, but if they're not with us, theyre against us." (with full apologies to CH).  This is a dangerous road and does not lead towards anywhere good.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Odd Man Out

[james lambert 3,059]

OmO

Please stop using verses to support your opinions.

One it pisses me off....and I am a christian!!!

Two most of it does NOT fit the situation at all, Or is incorrect as to meaning Or can be contradicted by other verses!

 

You can have your opinion! thats just fine,   but it is JUST your opinion

Jim

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

Jim

I only used it to show my reasoning for myself and myself alone.  Was not trying to proselytize.  Understand what you are saying completely.  The verses were trying to show the background behind my own motivation only. 

 

Hey, since you are a Christian here's a question for you; Do you think Christ would condone killing someone for the sake of defending Freedom?  Is someone else's life worth less than your own freedom?

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Christ himself instructed his disciples to be armed.. for what purpose? (Luke 22:36)

to protect one's self from gettin' robbed...

[thebuns1 4,323]

 

You really don't know the mind set of the gov goon, Do you??

 

Actually I do.  I am a student of history and one area that fascinates me is the "how" of the holocaust.  It wasn't demons or devils that killed all those people but ordinary German people.  In fact there were German Police Battalions employed in the Final Solution.  What I have found is that those ordinary people were brainwashed with a constant drumbeat of the us versus them until ordinary people did not see the people they were killing as fellow people but as untermensch.  To a small degree this us/them dichotomy is being perpetuated here in the U.S. by both sides.  Look at the drivel of Harry Reid and some of the things people on our side are saying such as this: "Feds or not, they deserve whats coming to them.  The "other side" may be citizens also, but if they're not with us, theyre against us." (with full apologies to CH).  This is a dangerous road and does not lead towards anywhere good.

 

What road is that? Seems you want to place me along the lines of the Nazi's, then thats cool. Im merely sick of seeing people get treated like piles of dogshit and them getting away with it. And they do deserve whats coming to them, as they knowingly continue down the path they do knowing the consequences of such actions. With a track record like big brothers, you really expect me to embrace their lame ass with some retarded sense of humanity? No thanks. They can show us the humanity and quarter first, since they are the ones that have to earn my trust.

[magsite20 1,664]

116 wrongs, don't make a right

[Juggernaut 11,054]

116 wrongs, don't make a right

Nothing more wrong than using an image of Gunny addressing "solders"... Semper Fi!

 

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Hey, since you are a Christian here's a question for you; Do you think Christ would condone killing someone for the sake of defending Freedom?  Is someone else's life worth less than your own freedom?[/size]

In your scenario, is the 'someone else's life' the guy denying my freedom? If so than I vote that my freedom is worth more than his life.

[thebuns1 4,323]

 

Hey, since you are a Christian here's a question for you; Do you think Christ would condone killing someone for the sake of defending Freedom?  Is someone else's life worth less than your own freedom?

Do you think Christ would condone someone enslaving another? Is your masters freedom, worth more than your life?

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

All I know is that my Savior gave up His life and freedom willingly for every dirtbag one of us and while we all can use Biblical verses to justify anything we feel like justifying, the bottom line is that Jesus Christ never promoted, advocated or hinted that violence was ever a practice He will ever endorse.

 

I have made my points known.  I apologize if I have ruffled any feathers.