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FTE....SOMETIMES ON LOW BRASS


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Hey guys I have a saiga 12 that came through Century Arms and was pre converted. it is a 3-hole gas (clean an clear with good ports). No matter what clip I use 5 round 10 round and/or my 20 round drum I still will get FTE every say about 8 or 9 shots sometimes less maybe 4 or maybe 2 very random so to say. Sometimes shot the whole way throug thru the 20 round with no FTEs. What's all your thoughts? Also I polished up the bolt some to see if it will help an not really. I do have stock gas plug but have a twist puck for the stock puck wouldn't work with low brass at all for me thanks for the help !

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welcome

 

what kind shells are using brand, fps, etc.....  if using Winchester walmart bulk pack this is problem, try federal pack only shoot 1200fps and higher.  

 

knowledge is power read threads they will help, search tool 

Edited by bobabuee
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I'm using: FEDERAL BULK (Walmart) Gauge:12. DramEQ.:3. oz shot:1 1\8. shot:8. 2 3\4 inches. Muz vel 1200FPS. MP12 8. Hopefully that answers what I'm using lol. PS. I know winchester doesn't work most time if almost all the time haha

Edited by mitchrod11
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well ok, just spring would be bad idea to have its cheap fix if works ,it could  a friction problem too ... do some polishing rails ,hammer

bolt carrier get them to run smooth by hand cycle it just don't put lot of parts all at once add part then shoot test if better keep if not  remove it etc....

 

if its still under warranty send back to them to look at.

 

all else fails pull gas block step up gas port size one size test and so on .

 

maybe needs another port?

 

do easy stuff first polish, spring ect ... test,  retest

 

you  will get , at least it runs most of time so you a head of game.

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Funny you have said to polish this parts cause those are the ones I have polished even the bolt gide on the bcg.I have been trying to fix this for a month now an try not to drill out gas ports. Been doing tones off searching for the answer other than the normal of polishing cause that's done. An really trying not to drill cause I don't want to mess it up lol. Just was not sure if there are any other good tips or tricks out there.

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You know to think of it if I do hold it with a death grip so to say it shoots good. It is a used gun that the guy was haven trouble with. an when I took it to stock gas block it worked I had to order a new one of course an it came with a puck the puck sucked but the gas block worked an made it work to this point as to where FTEs are unpredictable, but a tonless then what is to expect with a stock system other then a twist puck.

An that was why I was thinking of the low brass kit to have a softer spring to help an a higher gas release with the 6 choices on it to be sure it would work with out having to drill... an that's big to me just my choice I really don't want to drill at all cost. Thanks for the help guys truly!

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So you are having better luck with a twister puck than you had with the OEM puck? That is counterintuitive to me, but ok. I was going to suggest you get the twister puck out of there and forget about the weak spring idea. Another piece of advice I planned to give you was to only use the factory mag for all future testing while you get the bugs out of it to eliminate that variable. It it were me I would throw away the twister puck and get something else like a CSS puck, forget about the spring, check the profile of the hammer and adjust as needed, take the spring out and slide the carrier to see if you have any resistance anywhere, reassemble and maybe rack the carrier a few hundred times. All this advice assumes that your ports are good to go, if not start there. I could go on but that is all I have for now. Good luck and enjoy.

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Mitch, it's very hard to understand what you mean, by the way you type.

 

The low brass kit is not recommended. These guns can be made to work perfectly without spending any money on un-needed parts. I absolutely don't recommend the twister puck. It tends to foul up more that the factory puck or similar.

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Yes in my s12 the twist puck works better then the OEM one I have. I was using the stock mag too an have FTEs on it too plus my other two.. my 10rounder seems to work the best IMO. I have a CSS puck coming the three ringed one right? What do you mean by adjusting the hammer? Kind of lost there. When sliding the BCG with the hammer locked it seems to move for the most part I would say smooth for an AK action. My ports are at about 3/32s is that good? Sorry it maybe the auto correct I seen that sorry will be sure to read before sending.

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I will try OEM puck again. An if worst comes to worst I may drill A gas port. How big should I go? How big is to big? What should I do an not do? Sorry just not trying to throw almost a $1000 in the trash if you know what I mean haha

O plus remember this is a used gun not sure how many rounds have gone throw it but it seemed clean an I always wanted one so I got it but its also doesn't look like shit or beat at all

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What do you mean by adjusting the hammer? Kind of lost there.

What I said was that you may want to see if the profile of your hammer is sitting high and robbing energy from the cycle. I recommend that you spend some time reading this section of the forum, read the stickies first and check out this recent thread for more detailed info about the hammer profile. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/93431-worse-ftes-after-conversion/
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just want to give a quick update I want to thank you all for your advice and help. I did some more polishing on the bolt and bolt carrier also the trigger hammer and on the disconnect. I also not sure if anybody has done this or not I even polished the original OEM puck. and put it in I even polished on the inside of the gas chamber some lightly to give it a smooth feel. AND WOW WOW WOW WHAT AN AMAZING GUN NOW IT WORKS. JUST SHOT 150ROUNDS IN MY 20DRUM 10MAG AN 5MAG.... GUESS WHAT 1FTE AT START AN THAT WAS IT!!! AMAZING!!!

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I got the c_s_s puck in today. kind of confused as to why it is a lot smaller than the stock one.is that better than stock or no? also I am really disappointed in the DPH arms gas plug regulator I was getting it hoping to be able to adjust without having to push the indent in but to my disappointment that is not the case so I'll guess I will be retaining the stock block an returning it. So if anybody has any reason as to why the CSS is a lot smaller than stock I would like to know an if its better or worth trying let me know thank you.Thank you.

I got the c_s_s puck in today. kind of confused as to why it is a lot smaller than the stock one.is that better than stock or no? also I am really disappointed in the DPH arms gas plug regulator I was getting it hoping to be able to adjust without having to push the indent in but to my disappointment that is not the case so I'll guess I will be retaining the stock block an returning it. So if anybody has any reason as to why the CSS is a lot smaller than stock I would like to know an if its better or worth trying let me know thank you.Thank you.

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I have an autoplug from a friend of mine an it didn't work for me I had the screw like almost the whole way in an would not work FTEs every time or I would have that in an be happy happy but it didn't work at all an gave it back. Works great for him not for me

Was that before or after you got your s12 running the way you like?

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Both after an before cause I love the look of it but still wouldn't work even after shooting good. still looking for the answer about the CSS pock if it is better than the oem puck or not being that it is smaller than the OEM puck. and also why is it smaller than the OEM puck if anybody has that answer thank you.

Edited by mitchrod11
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Is it the puck with the nub on the back?

 

If so, the larger diameter is shorter so that it will all fit in the gas block without blocking the gas port, even when the piston is forward.

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Yes a little nub. An its a lot shorter so is it better for helping the low brass or is the OEM puck better I thought a bigger puck would be better cause it has more mass in the gas tube creating more pressure right? So OEM would be better. Or do I have it backwards the smaller puck makes more pressure. If any one got a good explanation on this I would love to know. So I can make a choice. Cause if I shot the CSS puck its mine.

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The puck doesn't change the pressure unless it's a tighter fit, if you need more pressure, drill the ports. (3 ports at .093", 4 ports at .078")

 

The nub on the back of a CSS puck is there to push the gas piston a little bit farther, and to reduce the impact on the piston from a loose puck. (loose front to back, like the factory puck)

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this is what I mean. The CSS puck sits about 3 cm from the gas ports. As the OEM puck sits about 1cm From the gas ports.I'm sure this makes a difference even though it is not much. So what is better for low brass.an if I use the CSS puck for low brass reliability should I also keep the DPH gas plug to regulate better and more choices of gas flow.

As seen here

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Been there done that if I had a good answer you think I would be asking. Been searching about this with no clear answer for almost a month now. That's why I am asking. So if you dont have any good in put other then telling me to search as I have done then your not helping me or anyone else looking for a good sold ture answer.

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