tbryanh 11 Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 What 5.45x39 ammo is there that comes close to or exceeds the qualities of 7n6? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scattergun10 125 Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I would have to say Golden Tiger.The only thing is it's not always readily available. After GT, maybe Silver Bear, but GT is considerably better than SB IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) just look for 5.45 ammo that is 53gr. that is what 7n6 bullet weight grain is, and has a MV of around 2900 FPS. WOLF 55gr is close with a MV of 2890 FPS, I'm sure there a couple of other brands that is very close to that as well, or is the same as 7n6 Edited April 21, 2014 by Matthew Hopkins Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Golden tiger is 59 grains but I imagine that is the difference of a full lead core vs. steel. Golden tiger is my go to ammo for 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 Had 7N6 not been banned from import, I'd probably have never bough another can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 GT in x39 is good but not so much in 5.45. If you want to shoot, shoot whatever. If you want a SD round....Hornady Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) I suppose countries other than Russia make ammo similar to 7N6 for their militaries, but because it is probably considered to be steel core, it is probably banned from import too? Edited April 30, 2014 by tbryanh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 The country of origin has nothing to do with it. It's the steel core. So yes, anything with a steel core cannot be imported. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 7N6 was probably designed for the Saiga 5.45x39 barrels, or vice versa, the Saiga 5.45x39 barrels were probably designed for 7N6. I am not an expert on this, but I am wondering how good the substitues are? The substitutes probably have different gunpowders, different bullet shapes and weights. Not sure how much that matters, but I think it was nice to have authentic ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well 5.45 came out in 74 and 7N6 was out before 87 so it wasnt designed for the Saiga. The Saiga wasnt designed for the 5.45 either. The Saiga is nothing more than a AK74 in sporter form and with a sivilian name of a deer like animal, Like making an AR, taking the pistol grip away and calling it a antilope. The substitute Russian ammo sucks. 7N6 does about 3000fps. Wiki has the commercial ammo listed around 2800 but they are just going of off the manufacturers specs. Ive seen these chronographed first hand and they avg around 2600fps. Thats the speed of x39. Thats shit for a 5.45 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaFL 4 Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 The Red Army Std, clocks at 2300 fps which is less than the 7.62. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The Red Army Std, clocks at 2300 fps which is less than the 7.62. Oh fucking wonderful! I bought a 180 round battle pack that I havnt tried yet 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scattergun10 125 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 The Red Army Std, clocks at 2300 fps which is less than the 7.62. Whoa! That can't be right, got to be a typo.(or did you chrono it?) If it is,that's insanely watered down.They must have pissed in the gun powder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 He gets north of 2600fps which is still lame but not as bad considering it's 69gr 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 He also chrono'd high 2800s / low 2900s for GT: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Mrgunsngear Hornady 5.45x39 60gr V-MAX Ballistics Gel Test Hornady 5.45x39 60gr V-MAXAt 10 yards from chronograph: 2775 fps, 1025 ft/lbs energy. Good penetration and wound channel. Costs about $0.40/round. Nothing mentioned about accuracy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Mrgunsngear Golden Tiger 5.45x39 FMJ Ballistics Gel Test In The Arsenal SGL-31 AK Golden Tiger 5.45x39 FMJ 59 GrainAt 10 feet from chronograph: 2909 fps, 1108 ft/lbs energy.Good penetration and wound channel.Last sold for $0.25/round.Nothing on accuracy. Edited May 13, 2014 by tbryanh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hornady 5.45x39 60gr V-MAX At 10 yards from chronograph: 2775 fps, 1025 ft/lbs energy. That's pretty disappointing for velocity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Mrgunsngear Denmark Made NATO M855 62gr 5.56x45 Ammo Test & Review NATO M855 62gr 5.56x45 (steel core)At 25 meters from muzzle (16" barrel): 2,886 fps, 1146 ft/lbs energy.Good penetration and wound channel.Costs about $0.40/round.Accuracy at 100 meters: 3.6" groups Edited May 13, 2014 by tbryanh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Mrgunsngear Silver Bear 5.45x39 60gr Bimetal FMJ & AK-74 Ballistics Gel Test Silver Bear 5.45x39 60gr Bimetal FMJAt 15 feet from muzzle (16" barrel): 2,782 fps, 1030 ft/lbs energy.Good penetration and wound channel.Costs about $0.28/round.Nothing on accuracy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 5.45-53gr 7N6 Cronographed at 2984fps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHvnOIKtKuE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Mrgunsngear Wolf Military Classic 5.45x39 55gr Soft Point Wolf Military Classic 5.45x39 55gr Soft Point(Might also be known as PolyFormance)Chronograph: 2742 fps, 917 ft/lbs energy. (velocity varied alot)Good penetration, expansion, and wound channel.Costs about $0.25/round.Nothing mentioned about accuracy. Edited May 15, 2014 by tbryanh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) 7N6 appears to have the highest velocity so far. Probably no surprise here. Absolute velocity is one measure, and consistent velocity is another. If the velocity of the substitute ammo is consistent, even though it is less than the velocity of 7N6, it can still perform well. (Tight groups) If velocity varies alot (some loads are hotter than others), even though it might have a reasonably high average velocity, it may not perform that well. (Poor groups) Only one of the tests mentioned velocity variance (Mrgunsngear Wolf Military Classic 5.45x39 55gr Soft Point), so it appears more testing is needed. Because 7N6 is mil spec, it probably has a consistent velocity. Hopefully one of the choices available as a subtitute has a consistent velocity too. Any info on this? Edited May 15, 2014 by tbryanh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 Because 7N6 is mil spec, it probably has a consistent velocity. Hopefully one of the choices available as a subtitute has a consistent velocity too. Any info on this? It might be good to research these questions at theakforum.net. All of this has been well-tested. Start here: http://www.theakforum.net/forums/19-ammunition-reloading Here's a good comparison of Hornady and 7N6: http://www.theakforum.net/files/HANS-110022-HOR.pdf Just from memory of past threads, the commercial 5.45 tends to be inconsistent and less accurate than 7N6. Hornady is another story. I would not use any Russian commercial for self-defense, because I've experienced too many failures with them. (Golden Tiger in 5.45 and 7.62 has a better reputation but I haven't tested it enough to be comfortable with it). There basically is no good substitute for 7N6 (Hornady is the only other viable round in my view, but is not cheap). Buy more while it is still available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Most prefer it [Golden Tiger] over Wolf, Tula, or the others because it is a lacquer covered case and is sealed at both the primer and bullet ends of the case. Polymer cases have a bad habit of rusting with just a little bit of moisture. This stuff stands up to the elements better and is better for long term storage. The bullet is also boat tailed which although some claim it increases accuracy its actual function is to slightly reduce aerodynamic drag resulting in higher retained downrange velocity. The bullet also has a hollow airspace in the tip which shifts the center of gravity further to the rear and causes the bullet to tumble earlier when it encounters flesh making a more lethal wound. SOURCE http://www.theakforum.net/forums/19-ammunition-reloading/170961-golden-tiger-x39-available.html#post1575844 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) golden tiger 5.45mm vs 7n6 At a 100 yards, GT is as accurate or more accurate than 7N6.Has the same airpocket in the front of the bullet and has similar tumbling characteristics upon impact as 7N6.Some comments from the video:"How come the point of impact is way off on each target? The 7N6 target is off to the right then other target off left.""I had zeroed the sight at 50 yards and it had seemed pretty much dead on but when I moved out to 100 yards it became apparent that I was shooting to far to the right so I moved the red dot over a few clicks and fired the second group, which I had apparently overcompensated for so after that I brought it back a few clicks and fired the last few groups." Edited May 16, 2014 by tbryanh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) Appears GT in 5.45x39 has been out of production for a year or more because of a lack of demand. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=2&f=467&t=219685 It is still listed on their website as being one of their products. http://www.goldentigerammo.com/ Edited May 16, 2014 by tbryanh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Appears GT in 5.45x39 has been out of production for a year or more because of a lack of demand. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=2&f=467&t=219685 Perhaps that will change with the 7N6 ban. Hopefully so. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 That's strange. It always seemed to me like SG blew through what they had every time it was available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scattergun10 125 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 That's strange. It always seemed to me like SG blew through what they had every time it was available. That's what I was thinking. SG had some in stock I think maybe a few weeks ago and within a matter of days it was GONE. I was tempted to buy some even though I don't currently have a rifle in that caliber. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbryanh 11 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 I sent an email to Sgammo yesterday asking when GT in 5.45 might be available again. They said they are expecting some in August. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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