Sirex 34 Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Is there one that is designed for a shorter .308 barrel? Fast powder combustion, lower flash, maximum velocity out of a 16" barrel? I mainly shoot the cheap Russian stuff or 7.62 NATO stuff, which is fine normally, but I get some flash, and was wondering if anyone knew of a brand (I don't reload) that is designed for carbines. Thanks for any insight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Interesting question. I think the NATO mil-surp other than that no. IIRC 308 (7.62 NATO) is speced for a 20" barrel which explains the fireball out of 16" and the small flash from the 21" Saigas. Maybe someone knows for sure. Going to have to reload with a fast powder to get exactly what you want. But you also get to to choose components based on accuracy, lighter bullet etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) Check out hornaday tap ammo they have low flash powder. It may not be desgined for short barrels but it should help. Also have you considered getting a flash hider? Edited April 26, 2014 by Ak Monty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bunker83 22 Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I shot my best groups out of my saiga 308 with 150 gr Hornardy superformance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 If there was ever a round that screamed "RELOADING" it is the 308. Very flexible round. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dvdcrr 0 Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 mine liked 150 gr. SST hornady loadings Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think ALL the factory loaded stuff, particularly the military surplus will be noisy with a big fireball flash, especially with the 16.3" bbl. But...like already said better before me, the 7.62x51 begs to be hand loaded. Can be done cheaper? Do not know if anybody makes commercial rifle low flash powder. The think the IMR types may already be. Not sure. I would love to have a Smith Industries Vortex flash hider on "Maxine Max Blast", my .308 Saiga. Her name! Do you name yours? HB of CJ (old coot) Both eye and ear protection are required with Maxine. Not so with the yet un named Ruger 10-22, suppressed, nite visioned, night time Oregon skunk buster and general pest control SBR. All US Code And NFA Rules Apply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Reloading can be cheaper after initial expenses. Not a lot but still... The best thing about it is consistency, do your part and all is well. What you are looking for is a faster burning powder, check the web for information. I use mostly Varget which is a medium burn and get little if any flash from a longer barrel. So fast burn rate would reduce flash and increase velocity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 If there was ever a round that screamed "RELOADING" it is the 308. Very flexible round. +1. They are fun to bend. I just made a batch now that I have brass. It is a lot cheaper per shot. It all depends on how you do it. Using hornady hunting bullets comes in at under 40 cents a round, and that's probably better ammo than off the shelf. Match ammo ain't cheap, but you still save a lot over buying match ammo. When I use Unique and heavy cast bullets for a plinker, I think they were coming in at 11 or 12 cents each and roughly 7.62x39 energy levels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 fun to bend?? i droped a loaded mag yesterday and the top round (308) popped out and bentm, made me think of that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sirex 34 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I shot my best groups out of my saiga 308 with 150 gr Hornardy superformance Hornady Superformance 150gr was my absolute first thought, but ran into 2 obstacles. 1. Can't find it online anywhere. I actually ordered it from a couple places online that listed as iin stock, only to get a reply it was on back order. 2. I emailed Hornady directly, and they told me it was a SLOWER burning powder, and would not be best for a 16" barrel. It has a more even pressure curve, not a quick burn. So, I thought due to the increased velocity, it would be great, but I can't find it anywhere, so it's a moot point. I have some TAP in 168gr for my Remington 700, may try a couple rounds in the gun to see what happens. I also reluctantly bought a box of Barnes Vortex 150gr. Pricey, but I have heard good things. I will also try 150gr Winchester Super X. Tula has been eh, ok. Silver Bear has been decent, just looking for the best for a carbine, as most are at least 20" long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) For what it would cost to have any reasonable/effective supply of high end ammo and still not have what is desired it is just cheaper to build the rounds with a fast rifle powder. Given the 1-12 twist rate of the Saiga, 125gr or less bullets will yield better performance in particular at longer ranges. If the powder has time to burn more completely it will yield higher velocities consistently. Off the shelf ammo just wont give what is asked. Burn rate chart of powders: http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html Notice Varget is listed as 100, a medium rate burn for rifle powder. While IMR 4895 is listed at 90, a bit faster burning powder that would be more suited for shorter barrels than Varget. Edited May 8, 2014 by Rhodes1968 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sirex 34 Posted May 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I'll have to find some 125ish grains. The ones I have seen are typically .310-.312, not .308. However I shall flex my Google-Fu. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Midwayusa had some a few days ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Nosler make a 125 grain that was .5 moa @100 yard in a 300 blackout and h110 powder Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Im too cheap to buy Nosler for the range but yes they makes excellent stuff Speer makes a good varmint round thats much cheaper and midway had it in stock Would only buy 125gr but that load uses about 6g more powder each round than 150g, it adds up. Do get over 3000fps out the 125g so a few hundred seemed wise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unknown Poster 5 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 My Saiga w/16" barrel in 308win benchrested shot 1 1/2" groups at 100yards using south African surplus 308 ball ammo. I haven't tried my quality reloads yet. The SA ammo pops up time to time. I use it as a baseline to compare different rifles in 308. I can compare the accuracy. I wish we had more of it available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sirex 34 Posted June 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 The main stash of sealed 7.62x51 I have is Maylasian. I haven't shot it yet, keeping it sealed for when the alien mother ship lands. The Barnes VorTX shot well, but I need to adjust my front sight and can't find my blasted sight tool. The Tula was, well, okay. Hit the gong 90% of the time. I still haven't found Hornady 150gr superformance to try. I want to get my sights dialed in better then try again. What I have to try; 1. Tula, lots of Tula. 2. Federal 7.62x51. 3. Silver Bear 145gr SP. 4. Random old 7.62 NATO. 5. API 7.62NATO. 6. Barnes Vortex 150gr .308. 7. Hornady 165gr TAP. 8. Winchester Super X 150gr. May have others. Hopefully next month. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Mil-surp used to be great stuff, cheap and passable to very good ammo. SA in particular has a good rep as did the English Radway and German MEN. Others were barely plinking ammo, seems random. Cant get it now, wont get it later, it is gone for all practical considerations. One may have some stored but pretty much it is only a matter of time given the stuff is mostly destroyed now instead of sold to the public. I cannot imagine shooting the 308 seriously without reloading, it opens up a whole world of possibilities. My favorite load isnt even sold AFAIK in any affordable form and if it was it would be less precise than can be made. Yeah I make plinking ammo also 150g FMJ and the like that I dont spend much time on but my mags are loaded with much better. So now I leave the mil-surp to the M1A shooters, they actually need the stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The main stash of sealed 7.62x51 I have is Maylasian. I haven't shot it yet, keeping it sealed for when the alien mother ship lands. The Barnes VorTX shot well, but I need to adjust my front sight and can't find my blasted sight tool. The Tula was, well, okay. Hit the gong 90% of the time. I still haven't found Hornady 150gr superformance to try. I want to get my sights dialed in better then try again. What I have to try; 1. Tula, lots of Tula. 2. Federal 7.62x51. 3. Silver Bear 145gr SP. 4. Random old 7.62 NATO. 5. API 7.62NATO. 6. Barnes Vortex 150gr .308. 7. Hornady 165gr TAP. 8. Winchester Super X 150gr. May have others. Hopefully next month. Sight adJustments are easy windage with an empty case and hammer. Elevation tool comes in ak buttstock cleaning kits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Heck a good sight tool is $15 and yes a hammer and a pair of good needlenose pliers will adjust the thing. Works well enough but having a good tool makes it better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sirex 34 Posted July 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Good news. I got an email last night from Sportsmans Guide they had 150gr Superformance in stock. Ordered a couple boxes. We'll see how my rifle likes it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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