Best Trigger Group for .223?

[mancat 2,368]

I have to be honest, I really believe that you're overthinking it. The FCGs aren't that expensive, and you won't have trouble reselling a lightly used one on the forums here if you decide you don't like it. Try out the one that appeals to you and go from there. All of them will work with the S223 out of the box, except for maybe the RSA trigger guard issues as previously mentioned here.

[tbryanh 11]

I am currently using Tapco triggers in my rifles. The thing I don't like about them is they are single stage hairpin triggers. Very light, about 3.5lbs I have heard. This is fine when you are shooting at paper targets on a bench at the shooting range. It makes for a very accurate rifle. Problem is, I don't feel the rifle is safe in a run and gun situation.

 

In a run and gun situation, the safety must be left off. The safety is out of reach and too dificult to turn on and off, so in a run and gun situation, it must be left off. In this situation, if you drop the rifle or dive for cover, the hairpin trigger might fire by accident. That is why I don't like it.

 

I want a real AK trigger group. It is two stage and has a heavier pull and makes the rifle much safer in a run and gun situation when the safety must be left off.

Edited May 5, 2014 by tbryanh

[Mountain Man 20]

I am currently using Tapco triggers in my rifles. The thing I don't like about them is they are single stage hairpin triggers. Very light, about 3.5lbs I have heard. This is fine when you are shooting at paper targets on a bench at the shooting range. It makes for a very accurate rifle. Problem is, I don't feel the rifle is safe in a run and gun situation.

 

In a run and gun situation, the safety must be left off. The safety is out of reach and too dificult to turn on and off, so in a run and gun situation, it must be left off. In this situation, if you drop the rifle or dive for cover, the hairpin trigger might fire by accident. That is why I don't like it.

 

I want a real AK trigger group. It is two stage and has a heavier pull and makes the rifle much safer in a run and gun situation when the safety must be left off.

 

Just going out on a limb, but I don't think the Tapco triggers are setup for 3.5lb pull. Compared to other rifles with light triggers I have, it feels more like 6-8 and I don't know harpin doesnt come to mind for me. They are not double stage but unless somthing works its way into your trigger guard or you re-profiled your hammer quite a bit I cant see it going off from a drop.

 

I do understand that idea an notion and can relate, I use a Glock Saf-T Blok on my G26 carry gun for that same reason, but that is inside my pants with a lot more chance for contact or snags.

[yakdung 2,926]

 

I would try and contact this group. The Texas AK trigger set I believe was forged not cast. I did business with them years ago, but have not spoken with them lately.

http://texasaktriggers.com/

Good luck,

 

Their website doesn't say if the triggers are single stage or two stage.

 

Single I'm almost certain.

[tbryanh 11]

I want a real AK trigger group. It is two stage and has a heavier pull and makes the rifle much safer in a run and gun situation when the safety must be left off.

Well, not too real. I don't want the trigger group to allow the selector (safety) to be able to choose full auto. Just semiauto only.

Edited May 6, 2014 by tbryanh

[tbryanh 11]

Apex Gun Parts has Romanian AK Semi-Auto Trigger Parts Sets.

https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/products_id/2091

https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/products_id/3951

 

If these work, I will probably use them and find other ways to meet 922r compliance.

[mancat 2,368]

The military and foreign manufacture AK FCGs are not two-stage, and any felt two-stage effect that they have when brand new will sort of blur over time as the surfaces between the trigger and hammer wear in together.

 

I will say that the Yugo rifles I have feel VERY close to a two-stage FCG but they still aren't. They just have overly tight FCGs.

 

I've never used the true Romanian FCGs, but some people really like them as they come on the Draco pistols. The bad rep of the Romanian FCGs are from back when Century originally copied their design for 922r purposes in the SAR series, but made a quite poor casting of it.

Edited May 6, 2014 by mancat

[mikebaker1129 19]

Sounds like you want a Arsenal FCG from your description . It closely matches the profile of the Russian FCG. I have one because I refer the straight shape of the trigger,but the 2 stage is gritty and I have done some work to it ,but it needs more polishing.

The Redstar says it fits the Vepr .223 and the Saiga .223 is basically the same,both use the spring loaded firing pin. 

[tbryanh 11]

The stock Saiga trigger apparently is two stage. The second stage occurs when the disconnector contacts the hammer. When the disconnector contacts the hammer, the spring for the disconnector adds weight to the trigger pull. A Youtube video titled "No-Cost Trigger Job for Stock Saiga AK variant Rifles" explains this pretty well. Check about 4 minutes into the video:

As I understand it, Izmash is the originator of the AK and continues to build AKs in the same tradition as it always has, so I am thinking all AK FCGs are two stage. I could be wrong.

[tbryanh 11]

Sounds like you want a Arsenal FCG from your description . It closely matches the profile of the Russian FCG. I have one because I refer the straight shape of the trigger,but the 2 stage is gritty and I have done some work to it ,but it needs more polishing.

The Redstar says it fits the Vepr .223 and the Saiga .223 is basically the same,both use the spring loaded firing pin. 

Arsenal ir MIM, so I don-t want it for that reason.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/93755-best-trigger-group-for-223/&do=findComment&comment=974921

[jimdigriz 580]

Apparently Red Star Arms has just come out with a new version of their trigger that doesn't need to be modifed to work in Saigas.

 

[mikebaker1129 19]

Okay so no MIM ,then you need to pass on the Tapco,Texas AK trigger,and the Arsenal unit.

That only leaves the Red star Arms.  

[tbryanh 11]

Okay so no MIM ,then you need to pass on the Tapco,Texas AK trigger,and the Arsenal unit.

That only leaves the Red star Arms.  

MIM is different than traditional casting. MIM uses powdered metal and a fiber. Tapco triggers are probably made with traditional casting. I have not heard of any Tapco triggers failing from casting problems, but there are reports of Arsenal triggers failing from the MIM process.

[tbryanh 11]

 
PULL WEIGHT OF TAPCO G2 TRIGGER
The youtube video "TAPCO G2 AK Trigger Pull Weight" shows that the stock Tapco G2 trigger pull weight is 3lbs. My Tapco triggers were polished by a gunsmith, so they are probably lighter than 3lbs.
 
TAPCO G2 TRIGGER IS SINGLE STAGE
During trigger pull, the disconnecter does not contact hammer, so the disconnecter spring does not add weight to the trigger pull. Excluding the geometry of the Tapco trigger, angle of contact points, friction of contact surfaces, etc., the pull weight of the Tapco trigger comes from the hammer spring only.
 
TAPCO G2 TRIGGER HAS A MYSTERIOUS BREAK POINT
From my experience with the Tapco G2 trigger, I am never sure when the trigger will break. It is always a mystery.
 
A TWO STAGE TRIGGER CAN BE CLEAR WHEN IT IS GOING TO BREAK
If the travel distance is short on the second stage, when the shooter feels the increased weight of the second stage come into play, the shooter knows the trigger is ready to break.
 
A TWO STAGE TRIGGER WITH A 6LB PULL CAN FEEL LIKE IT HAS A 3LB PULL
Suppose a two stage trigger is set up so that the first stage is 3lbs and the second stage adds an additional 3lbs. If the shooter pulls the trigger to get to the second stage and stops before the trigger breaks and waits until the target is acquired, the additional trigger pull to shoot the target is only 3lbs. The trigger at that point feels like a 3lb trigger.
 
A TWO STAGE TRIGGER MIGHT BE SAFER THAN A SINGLE STAGE TRIGGER
In the examples given, the two stage trigger has two springs to prevent the rifle from firing, the trigger spring and the disconnector spring. It also has twice as much spring tension to prevent the rifle from firing. This can be important if the rifle is dropped when the safety is off or during run and gun situations when the safety is off.  
  Edited May 11, 2014 by tbryanh

[mancat 2,368]

I wonder how much the total weight can be adjusted by some manipulation of the hammer spring legs - either by bending them to allow the spring to coil slightly more, or "wrapping" the legs an additional cycle while installing. I might give the latter a try. I have a couple extra hammer springs, but I don't really want to start bending them around.

[tbryanh 11]

I just got a reply to an email I sent to AK-Builder about the Texas AK Trigger. They said the trigger is single stage.

[tbryanh 11]

I installed the RSA trigger into my recently purchased Vepr .223. I am having some trouble with the install. Here is a link to a post I made about it: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/94070-rsa-trigger-install/

Edited May 25, 2014 by tbryanh

[tbryanh 11]

The install is finished. Turned out good. Great trigger!

Edited May 29, 2014 by tbryanh