Selectable gas system fix

[Wagnikov 186]

I'm not teasing or trolling. I need to know how many VEPR 12 owners would pay for a drop in solution. It would require field stripping to install. It would be selectable, so if you knew you were shooting slugs you would install "x". It would have no more moving parts than factory. It would soften recoil and reduce wear/eliminate damage. It would NOT help the gun cycle low brass. It would be to reduce gas with NO modification or alterations to the gun. It would also count as a 922 compliance part. Price would be under 100$

[Sdustin 578]

I maybe interested. I've been thinking the recoil difference isn't great from slugs to bid shot so that has system must be wide open

[Wagnikov 186]

I can tell you both my saiga 030/vepr12 are brutal!

Sadly dissapointed, I have the solution. But need market feedback to get the right players involved.

[sunnybean 939]

Interested.

[Sdustin 578]

I don't mind the recoil im more worried about parts breakage. It seems like I saw a post somewhere about opp rods breaking in russia and I'd hate to beat the rivets out of the rear truinion. Since I plan to shoot it a lot this might be a concern. My vepr kicks Lee's with buckshot than my coach gun with Bird shot so it doesn't bother me.

[Wagnikov 186]

I can buy 20 new guns but I can't replace my shoulder! My brother has had surged on his shoulder, and my father has been favoring his for 20 years. So it must be bad genes in that regard. But no matter the approach, most everyone agrees they are over-gassed. I can mod mine, but that doesn't do anyone else any good!

[Wagnikov 186]

Thanks big titties! Lol I promised once I got my Russian brothers home, I would shit out an answer to the gas systems

[sunnybean 939]

Bleedoff puck?

[garnaz 215]

Interest

[Wagnikov 186]

Uh AR's suck! So why would you want direct gas impingent on a vepr?! Let's blow shit all over our action and trigger! "Ok"US government"we'll take 50million" lmao. Sorry sunny, I know a simple NO would propaly have sufficed.

In the words of Kevin heart "I can't really get into it right now, but it's about.....to go down!"

[Wagnikov 186]

It's does not deter from the original Kalashnikov design, it does not add to the complexity, nor take away from the reliability. It follows the ak "design intent". It is as simple,as mechanically possible, by no accident. The factory blew smoke up everyone's @ about an adjustable gas system. They lied. I will not. It is not auto-regulating at this time. It is selectable , that is to say, much like the gas plugs with various notches. It will be set for a specific ammo. It will not be externally adjustable at this time, as that would require permanent alterations to the gun. It will however, drastically soften felt recoil, eliminate excess stress/strain on mechanical parts from high brass ammo, and reduce accelerated wear. This is the real deal. The more noise we can make about the need for this product, the faster we can get it in our guns, and get back to slug-sniping. I mean come-on! they have rpk fully adjustable sights for a reason!!!

[vette447 11]

Interested

[Sdustin 578]

Did I miss someone suggest making it DI? And will it be a puck that adjusts id be happy with a puck that is for full power ammo if your going to have to take it Apart to adjust it anyway. That may make it cheaper and more simple

[Wagnikov 186]

No that was me razzing sunnybeam about a bleed off puck. There are several drawbacks to a bleed puck(1) without external and permanent mods to the gun the vent gas and fouling would have to be purged I to the upper gas tube and into the reciever(2) it would require a very small orifice and thus clog easily and unpredictably. You are correct in it being a high brass solution, you are also correct in cost effectiveness and simplicity.

[james lambert 3,059]

It's does not deter from the original Kalashnikov design, it does not add to the complexity, nor take away from the reliability. It follows the ak "design intent". It is as simple,as mechanically possible, by no accident. The factory blew smoke up everyone's @ about an adjustable gas system. They lied. I will not. It is not auto-regulating at this time. It is selectable , that is to say, much like the gas plugs with various notches. It will be set for a specific ammo. It will not be externally adjustable at this time, as that would require permanent alterations to the gun. It will however, drastically soften felt recoil, eliminate excess stress/strain on mechanical parts from high brass ammo, and reduce accelerated wear. This is the real deal. The more noise we can make about the need for this product, the faster we can get it in our guns, and get back to slug-sniping. I mean come-on! they have rpk fully adjustable sights for a reason!!!

If its a unique idea, do a quick provisional patent on it!

 

Its only a couple hundred bucks, it can be done in one day...even with legal zoom.

 

Trust me people here will steal your idea, copy your work and then get their toadies to bad mouth you if you try to protect your property.

 

It wont stop the theft, but in the end you can have the last laugh

Jim

[Wagnikov 186]

This products availability is dependent on you. I put it in motion and contacted a very successful and busy business member here. For him to redirect and push aside profitable endeavors, they need to see the market is ripe. It will make it to market eventually, but will be on a back burner until then. It's out of my hands now.

[Sdustin 578]

No that was me razzing sunnybeam about a bleed off puck. There are several drawbacks to a bleed puck(1) without external and permanent mods to the gun the vent gas and fouling would have to be purged I to the upper gas tube and into the reciever(2) it would require a very small orifice and thus clog easily and unpredictably. You are correct in it being a high brass solution, you are also correct in cost effectiveness and simplicity.

What I mean by high brass was just a simple non adjustable puck that would only work with high brass and if the need to shoot bird shot came up you would just use the factory puck is that the kind of thing your suggesting?

[Wagnikov 186]

 

No that was me razzing sunnybeam about a bleed off puck. There are several drawbacks to a bleed puck(1) without external and permanent mods to the gun the vent gas and fouling would have to be purged I to the upper gas tube and into the reciever(2) it would require a very small orifice and thus clog easily and unpredictably. You are correct in it being a high brass solution, you are also correct in cost effectiveness and simplicity.

What I mean by high brass was just a simple non adjustable puck that would only work with high brass and if the need to shoot bird shot came up you would just use the factory puck is that the kind of thing your suggesting?

Yes. I have various other options. But with the way these things are designed, the gas hardware is only accessible from the handaguard side. So to get a affordable solution, useable by anyone with the ability to field strip their gun, this is a rock solid solution. It will protect from expensive and irreparable damage. And make shooting enjoyable again for those of us who launch the big stuff. Go back to the overseas review of these guns before they were even available. And that guy said it "kicked like a mule" I agree and the problem has been unresolved until now.

[Sdustin 578]

Then yes I'd buy one if the price was reasonable. For sure

[Wagnikov 186]

I have finished preliminary testing. To follow are the video results. At this time there are three setpoints. High,medium, and low. Each setting is targeted toward a specific ammo energy. Low setting is for bulk birdshot. Medium is for reg 2 3/4" slugs. Hi is for 3" inch slugs and buckshot. The goal was to prove functioning of the ammo at it's respective setting. More importantly though is that ammo from a lower energy did NOT cycle on the next highest setting. This proves two things one that you have control of the gas system and two that you are not applying any excess gas/energy to the system more than what is necessary to reliably cycle the action.

[Wagnikov 186]

Starting at the bottom! Low brass setting-Federal bulk pack.

http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/danwagner88/media/Mobile%20Uploads/trimF547BA81-CA90-4570-B986-EC39FF67FF1E_zps6c7008fd.mp4.html

Medium setting – federal bulk pack.

http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/danwagner88/media/Mobile%20Uploads/trimCD94AFF2-D5F6-4E27-BC25-AC183097F73A_zpsc9bf6f73.mp4.html

This setting is for 2 3/4" slugs, and therefore should NOT function on low brass.

[Wagnikov 186]

This is the medium setting, with its appropriate medium energy slugs!

http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/danwagner88/media/Mobile%20Uploads/trimD451A288-6AE2-4C9E-B217-473CB0788B7D_zps77070618.mp4.html

[Wagnikov 186]

This is the high setting, medium energy rounds should NOT function.

http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/danwagner88/media/Mobile%20Uploads/trim9A267DAD-4E58-4D6E-9CF9-0B9C104F1AB2_zps4a1c7377.mp4.html

You should note that the gas is regulated down so well that the gun does not cycle, take note however that the recoil is extremely minimal.

[Wagnikov 186]

And for the grand finale 3 inch slugs from the hip!

http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/danwagner88/media/Mobile%20Uploads/trimA97AB3F6-2F88-4A07-90B3-3CC4050D38FA_zps24fbf8ed.mp4.html

Coming SOON!

[warthog984 1]

_{You have peaked my interest.  But the funny thing is I am trying to get it to cycle bulk pack ammo first.  Seems like a lot of people have no issues with bulk ammo, but mine is finicky.}

[Wagnikov 186]

_{You have peaked my interest.  But the funny thing is I am trying to get it to cycle bulk pack ammo first.  Seems like a lot of people have no issues with bulk ammo, but mine is finicky.}

Pm me. We'll get you running

[Wagnikov 186]

Special thanks to my camera man!

http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/danwagner88/media/Mobile%20Uploads/trim0FA4C292-B1A2-45F8-B6F4-5CB1EE4C7676_zps22b5b4a1.mp4.html

[jdtravers 637]

I really didn't want to rain on anyone's parade, but all you have to do is replace the recoil spring with a heavier spring if you feel your shotgun has too much gas.

 

I worked on a Vepr today, that barely would cycle Federal Bulk Pack.  They are all a little different.

 

Just because the shotgun came with "X" springs, does not mean they are consistent with the type shot shells people put through them.

 

It doesn't matter if it is a delayed blow-back pistol (1911) or a shotgun, they all can benefit from installing the proper springs for the shells being fired through the system.

 

It is day and night difference when the system is properly tuned.  Less felt recoil and less perceived muzzle flip.

 

Just go out to the range, with an assortment of spring and start changing them bad boys. 

 

You will find the combination that works for both your shooting style (mainly pistol) and the ammunition you are using. 

 

Standard Government 1911 Springs may be utilized as replacements.  Stock springs are at an average of 16#. 

 

Try an 18, go up a pound until the shotgun doesn't want to cycle properly and then start finding the perfect balance between performance and reliability or go down if your shotgun does not fully eject. 

 

You want a very fast action.  The fastest possible without causing any physical damage!

 

Jack

[Wagnikov 186]

Excellent tuning advice Jack, from experienced veteran.

[Wagnikov 186]

Just so we don't get off topic, as this thread is about a selectable gas system for the Vepr 12.. Let me reiterate what the goal, focus, intention, and target market group would be for this product.

 

GOAL; prevent excess stress/strain, minimize where/tear, reduces recoil, and eliminate damage

FOCUS; to provide the minimal force necessary to reliably cycle the action

INTENTION; To control the energy at the source

TARGET MARKET; vepr 12 lover who wishes to protect his/her investment from senseless damage, one willing to predetermine what type ammo they are going to shoot and apply inappropriate gas setting, one who does not want to dispose of the strength and reliability of the AK system, one wishing to keep the felt recoil as gentle as possible, one who is on a tight budget and in need of a no shipping, no gunsmithing, drop in high-value item.