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Cracked weld new Vepr-12


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Found a crack on a brand new V-12, only had 10 rounds through it when I noticed the crack. It is on the weld between the front trunnion and the rear sight base. I dont know if all RPK sights are the way the V-12 is, the rear sight has a "T" shape protrusion that fits into a "T" shaped channel in the front sight base, and then they are welding the front to keep it from moving. The left side weld on mine looked pretty poor, I'm kind of surprised it made it through QC at Molot, there was a big weld void that cracked from the top about 1/2 way down. Interesting thing is that I saw the exact same crack in the cracked top rail thread from a while ago: the old pic is here:  http://i.imgur.com/nFw4G.jpg?1 

 

So maybe this is not an isolated problem... you may have to take off your handguards to see the crack.I emailed Mach 1 Arsenal and sent them pics so I will let you know how they handle it. I dont know how big of a deal this crack is since the sight base is held on with the T-channel interface and welded twice...but still... it sucks to have bought such a nice gun and its broken already.

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Edited by jabara572
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Super Moderator New River, please confer with your 'BUSINEES' member if this is the direction you want to go.  If so, I'll be taking my business elsewhere.  This was an excellent discussion about how

I think he is talking about that. ..........      

It clearly looks to me that the top of the pin is above the bottom or the rear sight block. And therefore must have been drilled to install the pin. So I maintain that the weld comes along with the mo

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I got a reply from Mach 1,

 

They said they cant see the crack..... unsure.png (wtf?) and paraphrasing: the welds are just tack welds to hold the rear sight centered in the trunnion and serve no function as to strength. The rear sight is also pinned onto the barrel.

 

They said if I wanted I could send it back and have it re-welded or it would be fine if left alone?huh.png 

 

Not getting a great feeling about leaving it alone, I am afraid the crack might grow into the sight base or even worse into the trunnion and then I'll be truly screwed.... I cant see how the rear sight would be pinned onto the barrel, but I dont know the PRK style of rifles very well..... to me it looks like the rear sight simply slides into the front trunnion T channel and gets welded in place at the front, but it "COULD" be held in place with the barrel pin also.....  

 


If its held in place by T-channel joints and also pinned onto the barrel then why would MOLOT be welding it??? Knowing Russian rifles i thought they generally hated to weld anything if they didnt have to.

Edited by jabara572
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I hate to agree with Mach 1. But my assessment of the welds are to maintain accuracy on the sights.

It looks like it's where the welder(technician) pulled out of the welded to quick. And the parts were hot, and it cracked when it cooled. It's not very reassuring I know.

Yours appears to be welded on the vertical, whereas mine is across the top.

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Are the Vepr rifles welded in this area also?

 

I dont think so, i think they have a band that is pressed around the barrel much like other standard AK's, the V-12 does not have a band and attaches differently.

 

 

I hate to agree with Mach 1. But my assessment of the welds are to maintain accuracy on the sights.

It looks like it's where the welder(technician) pulled out of the welded to quick. And the parts were hot, and it cracked when it cooled. It's not very reassuring I know.

Yours appears to be welded on the vertical, whereas mine is across the top.

 

Thanks for the pic Wagnikov,  its very odd that they are welding some on the horizontal and some vertical.... If the weld is there to preserve the accuracy of the sights, then I feel like a failure here is going to throw my sights out of whack,not to mention if that front trunnion twists the dust cover will start to not fit, not to mention the op rod has to fit through that cylinder and will start to bind... so I think it is definitely something that needs to be fixed.

 

The only way i MIGHT be ok with it is if I can confirm that the rear sight housing is indeed pinned to the front trunnion with the barrel pin.  If that is the case, I dont think it would ever move since it fits very tightly into "T" channels on each side and is then pinned.  But just looking at the rear and sides I cant see how the barrel pin would attach the sight housing, I think it is just the T-channel and welds holding it on....but again.. i cant confirm that, and no one has any pictures of a V-12 trunnion taken apart.....

 

Still, for such an expensive gun, I now have something I cant sell to anyone, and potentially will have a loss of accuracy, and loss of fucntion, not to mention could crack all the way through the trunnion, you just never know with cracks....

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Yeah I don't see a crack. All I see is where the gun (torch) was lifted.

100% its a crack. In that lighter version of the pic look at the "wet" area, its a vertical crack in the weld toe. Unfortunately its hard to take a picture of, but trust me its very visible in that picture.....maybe I'll have to draw an arrow to it.

 

Positive bleed back test with penetrant testing....its without a doubt a crack.

 

The bad news is that my original fears were true, the crack started at the weld and cracked all the way into the sight base. I'm taking it to a welding shop tomorrow to hopefully have it re-tig welded, and hopefully they can stop that crack because it can not be removed by grinding alone

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Thanks Chevyman, thats exactly it... Srry for the crappy cell phone pic.

 

 

As a side note, never let anyone tell you a crack is OK, or not a big deal. I can't believe I was contemplating shooting this thing as is. This crack luckily went forward into the sight base and not back into the trunnion which would have toasted this gun immediately.

 

 

I also don't think the sight base is pinned to the barrel... Unless someone can show me the bare trunnion and sight base it seems very unlikely that there is enough material to pin to.

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Yeah that's all I see. Like weld onto weld and not into the actual target area.... left a cavity underneath and that's what broke apart. Not saying its not cracked somewhere just that I don't se it.

You're looking at the crack....

 

I look at welds all day for a living, you'll have to take my word for it.

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Thanks Chevyman, thats exactly it... Srry for the crappy cell phone pic.

 

 

I had to zoom the picture. I didnt see it at first.

 

As Mullet said. (I think what he means) That it is a crack in the weld itself, then was welded again maybe? Either way, it does appear to be an ugly weld indeed. Feel free to use the pictures I posted. Maybe you can persuade a trade in. Cant really say if its a major worry or if it could be fixed personally.  I think i personally would worry about an ugly ass weld like that more than i would the crack.

Edited by Chevyman097
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Yeah that's all I see. Like weld onto weld and not into the actual target area.... left a cavity underneath and that's what broke apart. Not saying its not cracked somewhere just that I don't se it.

You're looking at the crack....

 

I look at welds all day for a living, you'll have to take my word for it.

 

No argument from me. That's your specialty.

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I'll let you guys know what the weld shop says tomorrow, they should be able to puddle what's left of that crack and build it back up properly...but you never know....

 

I already made the stock foldable so I think my warranty/trade in period went out the window a long time ago.... mach 1 sounded like they were just going to weld repair it anyway....... Fingers crossed.

 

All I can say is people who own vepr12s better keep an eye on those welds because even tho mine looked very small it went DEEP, and was a significant crack into the sight itself

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It clearly looks to me that the top of the pin is above the bottom or the rear sight block. And therefore must have been drilled to install the pin. So I maintain that the weld comes along with the more accurate rifle sights. As there was no concern with the bead sight drifting. But alas I have never been in the Molot factory and it's all speculation on my part.

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Yeah that's all I see. Like weld onto weld and not into the actual target area.... left a cavity underneath and that's what broke apart. Not saying its not cracked somewhere just that I don't se it.

 

The cavity is called the “puddle” where the active weld it being applied. As mentioned above the person (or robot) just pulled out. I use to weld for a living a long time ago and when I ended a weld I would always back-feed the puddle so you didn’t have the crater, it don’t matter if it Mig, Tig or Stick (aka Arc Welding) IMO it is alway a good practice to fill the puddle in. It could a few things, like if the metal was cold before being welded but probably just bad there...

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FYI, the WPA tech told me it would not spread because the trunnion is very durable.......... 009.gif  I don't think I will be taking that advice....

 

To their credit they are offering to take it back and re-weld it although I did not tell them about the stock mod or trying to grind it out which probably voids my warranty....

 

In retrospect I would have just sent it back to them and let them deal with it, but oh well.... my weld shop does some amazing work, so at least I know it is in good hands now

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  You should be shooting that gun, not worrying about that crack. If it bothers you too much, you could have drilled the tail of it and had it welded up.  That crack could be from anything (looks to me like it cracked when it cooled as its in the center of the weld ) but who knows.

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  You should be shooting that gun, not worrying about that crack. If it bothers you too much, you could have drilled the tail of it and had it welded up.  That crack could be from anything (looks to me like it cracked when it cooled as its in the center of the weld ) but who knows.

 

 

Sorry, this is terrible and dangerous advice.  The crack could easily have traveled into the trunnion and caused a catastrophic failure.  What looked like a TINY crack actually was cracked all the way THROUGH my rear sight housing AFTER 10 ROUNDS!!!!!!!!!  Sure i could have kept shooting it... right up until the rear sight cracked all the way off my gun, or the trunnion exploded in my face.... cracks don't just stop because you dont think they are a big deal, the only stop when they reach the end of the part.

 

If you see a crack (not to mention a crack near the barrel/main trunnion area) on a firearm that contains small explosions right next to your face and continue to shoot it, then you need your head checked.  I dont know of any firearm company that would tell you to keep shooting a firearm with a crack in it. 

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