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Bolt-On Lower Handguard Retaining Bracket?


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#1 tbryanh

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:45 AM

I just put a Romanian forward pistol grip on my .223 Vepr using the Carolina Shooters Supply (CSS) "HANDGUARD RETAINING LOWER BRACKET SAIGA 308 AND VEPR RIFLES" http://www.carolinas...bracket-308.htm

 

The bracket is very light weight and appears to be made out of low quality potmetal.  This might work ok for lower handguards that don't have pistol grips, but I am thinking it won't last long with my handguard that has a pistol grip.

 

I like the forward pistol grip alot and want to put one on my .308 Vepr, but I want a better bracket. Dinzag offers a bracket, but there is no info on his website about what it is made out of. By the pictures of it, it appears to be the same as the CSS one. It may be better, but I have no way of knowing.

 

Any ideas where to get a high quality bolt-on lower handguard retaining bracket?



#2 Matthew Hopkins

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:38 AM

 

The bracket is very light weight and appears to be made out of low quality potmetal.  This might work ok for lower handguards that don't have pistol grips, but I am thinking it won't last long with my handguard that has a pistol grip.

 

 

 

 

why would you even  think that it will last longer  on non-pistol grip rifle and not on a pistol grip rifle? the only thing that changes is the placement of your firing  hand, it will have no effect on the retainer


Edited by Matthew Hopkins, 23 May 2014 - 11:46 AM.


#3 Jim Digriz

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:29 PM

I just put a Romanian forward pistol grip on my .223 Vepr using the Carolina Shooters Supply (CSS) "HANDGUARD RETAINING LOWER BRACKET SAIGA 308 AND VEPR RIFLES" http://www.carolinas...bracket-308.htm

 

The bracket is very light weight and appears to be made out of low quality potmetal.  This might work ok for lower handguards that don't have pistol grips, but I am thinking it won't last long with my handguard that has a pistol grip.

 

I like the forward pistol grip alot and want to put one on my .308 Vepr, but I want a better bracket. Dinzag offers a bracket, but there is no info on his website about what it is made out of. By the pictures of it, it appears to be the same as the CSS one. It may be better, but I have no way of knowing.

 

Any ideas where to get a high quality bolt-on lower handguard retaining bracket?

 

The one on the CSS site appears to be the Dinzag retainer. Mine has held up fine with no problems.


Edited by Jim Digriz, 23 May 2014 - 12:29 PM.


#4 tbryanh

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:58 PM

 

 

The bracket is very light weight and appears to be made out of low quality potmetal.  This might work ok for lower handguards that don't have pistol grips, but I am thinking it won't last long with my handguard that has a pistol grip.

 

 

 

 

why would you even  think that it will last longer  on non-pistol grip rifle and not on a pistol grip rifle? the only thing that changes is the placement of your firing  hand, it will have no effect on the retainer

 

Here is my logic.

The forward pistol grip puts your hand into a better position for applying force. Since you can apply more force, you will apply more force.

Most of the increased force will be rearword and will have no affect on the retainer.

Because the pistol grip protrudes below the barrel, it creates a leverage which causes some of the increased force to be applied rotationally to the grip. The grip pivots on its end nearest the receiver. The other end of the grip exerts a force on the retainer in a direction perpendicular to the length of the barrel.


Edited by tbryanh, 23 May 2014 - 01:12 PM.


#5 tbryanh

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 01:04 PM

Maybe I could suppliment the retainer with some type of clamp or strap that clamps around the upper and lower handguards. That way, the gas tube would help to retain the lower handguard.

 

Even better might be to add some type of clamp or strap that fits between the upper and lower handguards and wraps around the barrel and lower handguard. That way, the barrel would help to retain the lower handguard in two places, and the clamp or strap would not need to be removed during breakdown for cleaning.

 

Another option is to add a barrel ring near the front of the handguard so that a hole can be drilled into the underside of the handguard allowing the handguard to be secured to the ring in the same way the Molot factory secures its handguard.

 

I think I will try wrapping a leather bootlace around the lower handguard and barrel. I will use many turns of the bootlace and make it look nice. The leather should go together well with the redish colored wooden handguard. Upon closer look, I don't think this will work. There is not enough barrel showing through the handguard for the leather to engage.

 

I think the best solution might be to install a small u-bolt around the barrel and let the threaded ends of the u-bolt protrude through the bottom of the handguard. Nuts would then be used to secure the handguard to the barrel. The u-bolt would be mostly hidden inside the handguard.


Edited by tbryanh, 24 May 2014 - 11:52 AM.


#6 tbryanh

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 11:38 AM

I replaced the two screws on the CSS retainer that secure the two halves together. I used two #4-40 x 1/2" socket cap screws. These screws are longer and protrude through the retainer half that has the female threads. The screws that came with the retainer only made it half way through (did not engage all of the female threads).



#7 tbryanh

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:32 PM

Looks like the CSS retainer is made out of aluminum. The description says "Machined from solid Billet and hard coat anodized black." The description does not say what it is made out of (Wonder why. Trying to hide something?), but steel is not usually anodized, aluminum is. The retainer is featherweight. It appears that the retainer is probably made out of aluminum. What a cheap shot from CSS.

 

Upon further investigation of Dinzag's website, I found this information about his retainers: "These are 100% steel! Aluminum loosens as the rifle heats up because it grows at a faster rate. Beware of cheap copies!"

 

Looks like I will be shopping for a retainer from Dinzag. Not sure if I will shop at CSS again.


Edited by tbryanh, 24 May 2014 - 12:36 PM.


#8 Ak Monty

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 04:16 PM

I have the dinzag retainer on my s308 and I've never had any issues. I also drilled divots in the barrel for the two small set screws to engage. I don't think mine is steel but I could be wrong I know it's lightweight. Ill Schell it later to confirm steel out alu. I think your best option is having the barrel machined and installing a regular ak47 retainer by removing the gas block and front sight. At that time you could also get a real gas block and front sight with bayo lug and cleaning rod guide.

#9 csspecs

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 05:18 PM

Carolina shooters actually sells two versions.

 

4140 Steel

http://www.carolinas...rge-bracket.htm

This one is made by DPH arms not Dinzag.

 

 

Aluminum

http://www.carolinas...bracket-308.htm

 

Solid billet almost always means aluminum. This one is apparently for Carolina Shooter by a third party (unless they do their own machining).



#10 Jim Digriz

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 05:21 PM

I have the dinzag retainer on my s308 and I've never had any issues. I also drilled divots in the barrel for the two small set screws to engage. I don't think mine is steel but I could be wrong I know it's lightweight. Ill Schell it later to confirm steel out alu. I think your best option is having the barrel machined and installing a regular ak47 retainer by removing the gas block and front sight. At that time you could also get a real gas block and front sight with bayo lug and cleaning rod guide.

 

I did the divots too. The retainer has never budged. On the lower caliber 5.45, however, the retainer didn't budge either but the lower handguard can ride up in the front, which has convinced me to put a standard retainer on it. I think trying to do so is a mistake in the 308 caliber though.

 

I just put a magnet to my Dinzag retainer; it is steel, not aluminum.



#11 Ak Monty

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 05:37 PM


I have the dinzag retainer on my s308 and I've never had any issues. I also drilled divots in the barrel for the two small set screws to engage. I don't think mine is steel but I could be wrong I know it's lightweight. Ill Schell it later to confirm steel out alu. I think your best option is having the barrel machined and installing a regular ak47 retainer by removing the gas block and front sight. At that time you could also get a real gas block and front sight with bayo lug and cleaning rod guide.


I did the divots too. The retainer has never budged. On the lower caliber 5.45, however, the retainer didn't budge either but the lower handguard can ride up in the front, which has convinced me to put a standard retainer on it. I think trying to do so is a mistake in the 308 caliber though.

I just put a magnet to my Dinzag retainer; it is steel, not aluminum.
The dinzag retainer hasn't given me any issues. I first tried to mod an ak47 retainer but that won't work for the 308. If I ever pull the barrel I'm going to machine it to match an ak47 profile and change the sight and gas block.




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