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Here are some pics of double stack mags. The exterior is currently a blank slate and not representative. Shown is an 8rd and 22rd mag. For length and width comparison there is a pic of the 8 next

The 22rd would be just over a pound I think it was vs a 2 pound md-20 or 2 pound 6 ounce (roughly) promag drum. Any capacity we release will be able to feed any mix of 2 3/4 and 3" ammo. With the ma

We definitely plan to do a Vepr mag. I've been playing with the follower design already. Also a magwell made for doubke stack mags woul still accept all other mags. The front to back dimension is t

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As others have said, I vote for whatever the round count would be for a mag no longer than the current single stack 10 rounders. That seems a good starting point. 

 

After that it all becomes a moot point...

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Hummm... Decisions decisions...

 

I'll cut to the chase then expand on some other thoughts.

 

He's already discontinued the drum.

 

I had no idea that the MD-20 was discontinued. MD is still selling them so...? Just running inventory out? That's the end of an era for sure! Hopefully they will still be supported.

 

I think it would be a tragedy to discontinue the drum and not offer a DS with at least a 20 round capacity.

 

First... I think its fair to say that most current customers bought the drums as toys. Frankly, I bought the entire gun BECAUSE of the drum. I'd hate to see the DS offered only in something like 8, 10, or 12 rounds because we already have that from other manufacturers. Sure, DS would be nice and I may buy a couple, but I wouldn't lust after them... To me, since I'm not gaining any function over my SGMs, it would be a novelty and I'd some day get around to snagging a few. This would be the type of thing I'd be looking for second hand or in a trade or something. I probably wouldn't run out and buy a case of them at launch.

 

Second... When you say 22 rounds, and show me it's the size of a 12 round mag AND a POUND lighter than the MD-20, my VISA card suddenly ends up in my hand. I get 2 more rounds in the mag, the gun is slimmer, AND it weighs less? I now have a functionality I didn't have before (higher capacity) and it weighs less. WINNER.

 

Third... My MD-20s are about 4" shorter than an SGM 12 round mag, which would make the 22 round DS equally longer than the MD-20. For height with capacity you just can't beat an MD-20. A mag the length of the MD-20 would be cool, which just by guessing would bring it in around 14-16 rounds? I could see myself buying a few of those just to have the larger capacity AND be slimmer in all dimensions. It still wouldn't be a lust after situation. Just think of it this way... If you invite a buddy to go shooting and ask them which mag they want to start with, the 14rd DS or the 20 round drum, which way do you think they'll go? I'm betting on drum every time. I think sales would go that way too... It's the whiz-bang effect of that much capacity in a 12ga shotgun. We all could have saved a fortune and be running far less expensive firearms if not for that wonderful S-12 capacity. That's what the entire gun is about.

 

All of the above are just my personal thoughts as a guy that just likes the S-12 as a range toy. I don't shoot competitions or cart my S-12 around through the woods or anything like that. Around here ALL of these mags would be illegal to hunt with without modifications so that point is nil for me.

Edited by Maxwelhse
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For a while there, I was pissed that the DS mags did not come when first stated, December 2011. Now, for various reasons, I am extremely excited about what this and the presence of the Vepr 12 in the US is going to mean. I am very hard to put in this state, but I feel like I am dreaming and the fact that the DS mag conversation has moved from "Are these ever going to come out?" to "DS mag pics" is simply amazing. It was a long time coming, but It looks like the wait was indeed worth it. Thank you, Mike.  

 

As awesome as the DS mag concept is, any size would thrill me (I sound like a woman who just got out of prison, lol), but I will give my take on it. A lot of people view these weapons as more of a range toy, but I view them as a very serious close quarters defense implement. Of course, I only view my own that way and it isn't hard to figure out why if you have seen my videos. So, a serious mag would be great and an all-out take-over-the-world capacity would be great for 3 Gun, ludicrous videos, reliability testing, and general hell raising. I would like to see the lesser capacity (I can't believe that term is appropriate given the content of this discussion!) in a familiar length anywhere between the length of a single 5 or 8. Anything beyond the length of an 8 makes my eyes widen and all I can think about is whether or not they will be outlawed at local 3 Gun in Fernandina Beach, lol. I no longer compete due to my lack of time for anything other than work and rest for the next loooong day, but I really want to see the Vepr 12 advance, so I may be putting some V12s in the hands of some local guys for use in 3 Gun. The recent buzz about these mags makes me think some team shirts with "Shock and Awe" on the sleeves would be appropriate. The butthurt is going to flow as deep as the Marianas Trench ;)  

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The single stack 12 is to long....along with several other people here, my vote for DS capacity is "whatever will fit an not be any longer than the AGP 10 rounders." 

 

Something in the 14-16 round range is awesome, and good competition for the recent pump action dual-tube guns like the KSG and UTS. With these DS mags we get just as many rounds but much faster reloading. Winning.

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Mike,

 

Glad to see the prototypes are rolling out. I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with any of the capacities listed. The metal tab in the front lug is a big plus for me, staying true to the Russian design.

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I want 10 and either 22 or 25. And, unfortunately, my Legion Saiga-12 doesn't accept standard Saiga mags, but I can convert VEPR mags to work. So unless these work with Legion converts, I want VEPR too. Oh, and TWO words: perty please. :)

Edited by MR_22
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16 & 24.....this is why, in competition shooting stages are most likely designed around TAC style guns (8-9) rounds, it only makes sense if you are shooting open to get double or more of the capacity of those guns. Like was said before, the whole idea of the double stack was to fit twice as many shells in the same footprint as the current 10 or 12 rounders.

 

If I had my way...I would make a double stack 30 rounder....they would sell like hot cakes for a number of reasons.

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You asked about "primary" capacity so..... mine would be 10 rounds. I think that particular round count, weight, and length combination would be about ideal for most of my needs.

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This is great but this 5 round to 8 round comparison photo is really confusing to me.  See image below...

 

It's obvious in the picture that it takes 4 rounds just to get down to the Double-Stacked portion of the magazine. With that said how are you squeezing 8 in there utilizing the same space? Correct me if I'm wrong but wont the double stack have the disadvantage that the majority of the spring will not be allowed to be stored in the follower since the majority of the spring will have to be the width of the doublestack portion of the magazine to prevent buckling while its compressed? In addition, if you truly intend to squeeze 8 rounds in the mag of the image that you posted then you have created a space for the compressed spring that is actually LESS than the stock 5 rounder (looks to be almost half to me).

With the combination of less space for the compression spring (again looks to be almost half to me), no way to store most of the compressed spring inside the follower, the fact that 8 rounds should take more force to push upward than 5, and the fact that the double stack taper should require more force on top of that-- I just don't understand how 8 is being squeezed in here when it takes 4 rounds just to reach the double stack portion. Did you make a spring that has coils super far away from each other so it has a smaller compression height? If so wont that mean very early spring failure? Sorry if I'm the skeptic here but everything about this seems odd.

 

The yellow lines are drawn to keep prespective throughout based on the alignment of the bottom of the two magazines. In reality the Stock magazine cartridges would in fact be about 0.25" higher than the doublestack since it appears to be about that much taller in the photo. I didn't move them up higher though because I don't have the actual number so I left it as if they were in fact the same height. If I did though it would only make the difference for spring space even that much more greater.

post-42409-0-12207800-1403563798.jpg

Edited by Johnson
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I didn't realize that I hadn't been online in such a long time.  Those pics are awesome Mike.  Just my 2 cents worth.......my preference would be mags in the length of the Izzy 8 or an SGM 10 length.  Sure, the ultra long max round mags would be cool, but is cool always practical?  How ya gonna sneak around in the bush with a mag longer than a horse dick hanging out the bottom????   Well, Im back to trying to find my son.....his mother took off with him at the beginning of April and no one seems to know where they are at.  She can run, but not hide.  So Mike, hurry up with the DS, I might need some real soon.....lol.

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This is great but this 5 round to 8 round comparison photo is really confusing to me.  See image below...

 

It's obvious in the picture that it takes 4 rounds just to get down to the Double-Stacked portion of the magazine. With that said how are you squeezing 8 in there utilizing the same space? Correct me if I'm wrong but wont the double stack have the disadvantage that the majority of the spring will not be allowed to be stored in the follower since the majority of the spring will have to be the width of the doublestack portion of the magazine to prevent buckling while its compressed? In addition, if you truly intend to squeeze 8 rounds in the mag of the image that you posted then you have created a space for the compressed spring that is actually LESS than the stock 5 rounder (looks to be almost half to me).

 

With the combination of less space for the compression spring (again looks to be almost half to me), no way to store most of the compressed spring inside the follower, the fact that 8 rounds should take more force to push upward than 5, and the fact that the double stack taper should require more force on top of that-- I just don't understand how 8 is being squeezed in here when it takes 4 rounds just to reach the double stack portion. Did you make a spring that has coils super far away from each other so it has a smaller compression height? If so wont that mean very early spring failure? Sorry if I'm the skeptic here but everything about this seems odd.

 

The yellow lines are drawn to keep prespective throughout based on the alignment of the bottom of the two magazines. In reality the Stock magazine cartridges would in fact be about 0.25" higher than the doublestack since it appears to be about that much taller in the photo. I didn't move them up higher though because I don't have the actual number so I left it as if they were in fact the same height. If I did though it would only make the difference for spring space even that much more greater.

 

Dude. *sigh*

 

Go to this page, read the entire thing and look at all the pretty pictures. Thats about as full an explanation as one could get..

MD Arms Patent on Double-Stack Magazines for Saiga-12

US08448364-20130528-D00004.png

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This is great but this 5 round to 8 round comparison photo is really confusing to me.  See image below...

 

It's obvious in the picture that it takes 4 rounds just to get down to the Double-Stacked portion of the magazine. With that said how are you squeezing 8 in there utilizing the same space? Correct me if I'm wrong but wont the double stack have the disadvantage that the majority of the spring will not be allowed to be stored in the follower since the majority of the spring will have to be the width of the doublestack portion of the magazine to prevent buckling while its compressed? In addition, if you truly intend to squeeze 8 rounds in the mag of the image that you posted then you have created a space for the compressed spring that is actually LESS than the stock 5 rounder (looks to be almost half to me).

 

With the combination of less space for the compression spring (again looks to be almost half to me), no way to store most of the compressed spring inside the follower, the fact that 8 rounds should take more force to push upward than 5, and the fact that the double stack taper should require more force on top of that-- I just don't understand how 8 is being squeezed in here when it takes 4 rounds just to reach the double stack portion. Did you make a spring that has coils super far away from each other so it has a smaller compression height? If so wont that mean very early spring failure? Sorry if I'm the skeptic here but everything about this seems odd.

 

The yellow lines are drawn to keep prespective throughout based on the alignment of the bottom of the two magazines. In reality the Stock magazine cartridges would in fact be about 0.25" higher than the doublestack since it appears to be about that much taller in the photo. I didn't move them up higher though because I don't have the actual number so I left it as if they were in fact the same height. If I did though it would only make the difference for spring space even that much more greater.

 

Dude. *sigh*

 

Go to this page, read the entire thing and look at all the pretty pictures. Thats about as full an explanation as one could get..

MD Arms Patent on Double-Stack Magazines for Saiga-12

 

 

I decided to actually read the entire thing just for fun and look at them 'pretty pictures'. Most of it apears to be fluff that just describes how the whole magazine works from from loading to unloading (guess that typical in patents). It seems the only original idea in the patent that I can find is a ramp that bumps the top most cartridges rim over the cartridges rim below it. Nothing in there explains how he is squeezing two extra rounds in the space shown in the image I posted above. Everything besides the ramp and the follower guide channels in the patent is like a stock magazine.

 

If what he was doing was ok the stock magazine would hold 6 rounds not 5--plan and simple. The only way I see this is possible is if the spring used is super over stretched in which case it will fail. Again I want the doublestack but I feel that all the mags advertised should be minus 2 of what has been stated. Its also bothers me that he says that the magazines are made out of some super material that makes them better then every other poly magazine on the planet. If the magazine were very expensive and made of an 'ultra polymer' like Torlon I guess its possible but he is also claiming that they will dominate in price as well......Guess im just a skeptical person. Anyway, I have said my peace. I know how annoying rants like this can be. I wont bring up any more on the subject unless specifically asked.

 

Take my money, send me one, and prove me wrong.

Edited by Johnson
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Kalashnikov Concern i.e. the "new" Izhmash just announced a new model S-12, the "340" and a 10 round mag for it...

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/06/19/new-kalashnikov-concern-civilian-balanced-recoil-ak-107s-saiga-9mm-new-12-gauge/

 

The very shoddy English translation is this: "Gun differs from the previously submitted samples reinforced receiver, increased to 10 rounds magazine capacity, and rapid recharge system. Muzzle Brake substantially reduced returns. Elevated levels of reliability allows the use of a gun as the army and police units".

 

I'm not worried about the quality of the double stack mag, as I'm sure it will be made from the same material as the MD-20 drum, and I can't recall of anyone ever posting on here that they actually broke one of those....I AM anxious to know the release date though...

Edited by Jpanzer
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Looks good. I think I would like something in the 15 or 16 round range and a 10 rounder more than 8. 22 would be cool too. How does the weight compare to your drum?

Second question: do these work with 3" shells? That could inform my capacity preference. i.e. I would prefer an 18 rounder which reliably lifts 3" mag to a 22 rounder which won't. I doubt I would shoot 18 rounds of 3" very often, but I really like the idea that I could. That would make sense to me for the hog hunters where it is legal, and the emergency backdoor gun in bear country.

The 22rd would be just over a pound I think it was vs a 2 pound md-20 or 2 pound 6 ounce (roughly) promag drum. Any capacity we release will be able to feed any mix of 2 3/4 and 3" ammo. With the material we use they will be stronger than any other polymers mag and rebound from rougher abuse than metal mags. They will also have metal in the front lug.

 

Id love to test one when they are ready........I plan on buying a few!

How about black, smoke, and clear as options.  Everyone loves the elusive and rare clear single stack mags.

 

Pretty please?

I second these options!

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