Saiga Conversions for CA

[Protectandserve 6]

Hello all, new to the forum and just picked up my first Saiga.  I plan on adding a bullet guide so I can use AK magazines (I'm a CA LEO, so I am good to go on using them), keeping the rifle with no pistol grip. 

 

Looking to add AK wood buttstock and forend to it.  So having browsed the threads prior to signing up, I think I need the following to complete my conversion and stay 922r compliant:

US made trigger group(3 parts)

US made stock and forend(2 parts)

US made magazines(3 parts).

 

I would also like to add a Bulgarian FSB, Bulgarian Gas tube and an AK74 style muzzle brake.

 

Any advice for a first time Saiga owner is appreciated.

[Protectandserve 6]

^ I don't make the laws in CA.  Only thing I can have that most can't in the state is standard capacity magazines.  I've never cited anyone for that and never plan to.    Other than that, anyone could have a Saiga as I intend to build it.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

I've always been under the impression that even attaching a magazine of greater than 10 rounds to a weapon not already registered as an "assault weapon" made it an "assault weapon" by that state's laws. Are you also exempt from that?

The Bulgarian FSB suggests a threaded barrel - which I believe is also problematic in your state.

[Protectandserve 6]

Per CA DOJ's Website:

• 12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
  1. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
     1. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
     2. A thumbhole stock.
     3. A folding or telescoping stock.
     4. A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
     5. A flash suppressor.
     6. A forward pistol grip.
  2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
  3. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
  4. A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
     1. A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
     2. A second handgrip.
     3. A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
     4. The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
  5. A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
  6. A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
     1. A folding or telescoping stock.
     2. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
  7. A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
  8. Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
     1. "Assault weapon" does not include any antique firearm.
     2. The following definitions shall apply under this section:
        1. "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device.
        2. "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
        3. "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.
     3. This section shall become operative January 1, 2000.

Also Muzzle Brakes are not considered Flash hiders, which is why in  CA a M1A can be sold with a Muzzle brake and detachable magazines. 

Edited June 19, 2014 by Protectandserve

[james lambert 3,059]

Man that sucks

 

I would move

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Lololol

So, the way that's written, if you had a bullet button your magazines would be illegal to use, but if they're detachable, and thus more useful, they're 100% legal.

Way to make sense, kalifornia.

[Protectandserve 6]

CA is really ass backwards when it comes to gun law.  They keep coming close to legislating me out but luckily the few of us who actually support gun rights manage to beat back some of the nonsense. 

 

There are so many gun laws on the books that contradict with each other, make zero practical sense and just make it a hassle for most legal gun owners. 

 

Figured I'd pick up a Saiga before the next round of proposed legislation causes prices to sky rocket again.

 

I want to get one as close to a classic AK style as I can, minus pistol grips.  Its always fun to have some cool things that new shooters have never had a chance to shoot with you as a way to introduce them to guns.  Being a cop means a fair amount of my non-LEO friends come to me to learn shooting, answer questions on first gun purchases and law questions in relation to firearms.  I figure the more of them I can turn into legal gun owners, the better we can knock down BS CA legislation.

[Big John! 2,062]

Cut the dude some slack.  No matter how he votes, there are several million others ready and willing to fuck that state up.  Welcome to the forum P&S.

 

I was a San Diego native for 36 years.  Now I have too many bad guns to even set foot in that state.

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

Move

[Big John! 2,062]

I swear, I hate it when you guys tell people to move.  When Co. was being attacked, AA told me to move to VA.  Now VA is no longer a safe haven.  Did you guys ever think that some people care more about being with their families, than owning standard cap mags, or AR's without bullet buttons?

 

P&S never even got a chance.  Attacking LEO at face value is fuckin bull shit.  If Feinstein and her ilk show up here, have at it.  Attacking a guy that shares our interest and is keeping up an uphill fight in CA makes me fuckin sick.

 

Where should he move, Texas?  Why, so he HAS to EDC to be safe from all of the refugees coming in?

 

Some of you smug mother fuckers just don't understand that ANY state can fall.  With all of the libtards and "Onegro" voters moving to Texas, don't be surprised when it falls.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

John has a point.

 

Were there anywhere to move and avoid all this, would have done so already. No free frontiers left to retreat this is pretty much it folks.

 

That said there are worse places than others and KA is about as bad as MA.

 

Now on the matter of LEOs being made a class apart from the rest of us, well participation is generally viewed as approval OP.

[Protectandserve 6]

If I could move and keep the same quality of life(income, weather, housing) as I have now, I would gladly do it but for now it just isn't there for most places.  Also my wife doesn't want to leave friends and family.  My little brother was out in Texas with the Coast Guard but is now back in CA as well.  He enjoyed his time there and in Alaska(free states).

 

Majority of cops I work with are Pro 2A guys and gals, they vote against infringement legislation but unfortunately our Chiefs and command staffs are different stories entirely.

 

The only 2 advantages you get for being a LEO in CA are the ability to buy handguns that are not on the approved roster for CA and the ability to have standard capacity magazines.  For an actual assault weapon you need a letter from your chief of police stating its for work use only and according to CA Attorney General rulings, you must turn it in(not sell it) to the department if you leave, retire or change agencies(even though you bought it with your own funds).

 

Only good thing we have going in this state recently was the Peralta(spl?) ruling against San Diego County that made CCW shall issue but even that is going to court again.

 

Back on topic, does anyone know who has US Made Wood AK stocks that are not completely out of stock?  Timbersmith and Ironwood Designs are both completely out with no estimated return time.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Offending posts have been deleted.  Please stay on topic.

[imarangemaster 315]

I am a retired California LEO. I left California for Illinois and Mississippi in 2007.  I moved back to California in 2011.  It was about being with my kids, grand kids, living in the Sierra foothills, backpacking and hiking in the High Sierra and Lake Tahoe region with my wife on a weekly basis, and still having access to the ocean.  Some things are more important than having a pistol grip on your rifle.  

 

I have an M1 Carbine (featureless by original design) and an AR I built featureless so I can use my pre-2000 high cap mags in them.   My featureless weapons work just as lethal as ones with pistol grips and collapsible stocks.  Family is more important than pistol grips when you are 62 years old.

Edited June 25, 2014 by imarangemaster

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I see wood furniture all the time on this FB feed;

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/NationalAK47/ 

[Bigtwin 219]

Welcome aboard Protectandserve! Aren't CA gun laws sooo much fun?

[Protectandserve 6]

If I am removing the FSB to replace it with another one will I need to cut into the barrel shroud or just knock out the two retaining pins?

[imarangemaster 315]

Unless they have changed in the last 3 or 4 years, saigas use punched in dimples in the FSB that mate dimples in the barrel.  No pins.  You have to drill the dimples out carefully, or cut both sides of the FSB parralell to the bore through the dimmples on both sides.

Edited June 22, 2014 by imarangemaster

[Protectandserve 6]

Should have mentioned mine is pinned and not dimpled.  I'll attach pics when I can. 

 

Edited June 24, 2014 by Protectandserve

[imarangemaster 315]

Wow!  Real pins now, and no dimples.  Definitely makes FSB removal easier.

 

BTW, I for got to mention I made my PTR91 (HK 91 clone) featureless so I can use my pre-ban G3 20 round mags in KA

[imarangemaster 315]

Having an Saiga with a factory (non-pistol grip) stock in Kalifornication is a viable option.  I have a bunch of "leagally possessed in California prior to 1-1-2000" 30 round mags.  With Tapco followers, a Tapco hammer, disconnector (trigger with bottom cut off to replace Saiga' disconnector assembly), and a Tapco gas piston, I meet 922R requirements. I can then use those high caps in my stock Saiga with no problem.

[imarangemaster 315]

Here's what we do in California to use our pre-ban high-caps legally:  These are mine (except the Saiga.  My Saiga is on the way to the dealer).

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2014 by imarangemaster

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Were I in KA it would not be Saigas but M1As, Garands, and M1 carbines I would own. 

 

Just seems to make more sense without sacrificing much at all.

 

Of course with everything but the Garand the mag issue would still remain but easy enough to circumvent or cautiously ignore.

 

For now...

[Protectandserve 6]

It is fairly hard to find affordable M1 Carbines or Garands in CA nowadays.  A M1 Carbine is actually on my list of things to get.  My M1A is a tricked out National Match and rounds are about 4-5x as much per box of 20 than rounds for the Saiga.  That was one of my big reasons for buying one as well as the fun of swapping it all around.

 

Here's what my M1A looks like

Having an Saiga with a factory (non-pistol grip) stock in Kalifornication is a viable option.  I have a bunch of "leagally possessed in California prior to 1-1-2000" 30 round mags.  With Tapco followers, a Tapco hammer, disconnector (trigger with bottom cut off to replace Saiga' disconnector assembly), and a Tapco gas piston, I meet 922R requirements. I can then use those high caps in my stock Saiga with no problem.

I'm going to do the same basic thing except I'm going to add a US made wood stock and forend and if my barrel is already threaded, I'll also add a AK74 Brake and possibly swap out the FSB.  I'm trying to get my part count low enough to use foreign AK mags if needed.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Yeah DC has about killed the Garand market as if time wasnt doing it fast enough.

 

Nice rifle you got there

[Bigtwin 219]

Nice M1A!

 

I need to get me one of them.....if it wasn't for all the other projects I am knee deep in!

Edited June 28, 2014 by Bigtwin

[Protectandserve 6]

I got my M1A from Gunbroker.  Felt bad some dude was doing the divorce firesale.  I got a great deal on it.  It needs better optics just has a Millet 4-16x that I put on due to budget reasons.  I'm going to eventually put some better quality glass on it when I get the money.  I highly recommend the JAE stock setup for those looking to make a dedicated long range scoped version of the M1A. 

[imarangemaster 315]

For those like me in California that want to use their pre-2000 high caps in their Siagas, leaving it "featureless", you only need to do four 922R parts: Tapco G2 Hammer and disconnector, Tapco gas piston or Tapco handguard, and Tapco magazine followers.

You can get a Tapco G2 set and either cut the trigger off the bottom of the trigger/disconnector assembly, or re-use the Saiga diconnector housing. Drive out the hollow pin, and remove the Russian disconnector. Then take the Tapco disconnector and the hollow assembly pin from the Tapco and install.

 

[imarangemaster 315]

I got my M1A from Gunbroker.  Felt bad some dude was doing the divorce firesale.  I got a great deal on it.  It needs better optics just has a Millet 4-16x that I put on due to budget reasons.  I'm going to eventually put some better quality glass on it when I get the money.  I highly recommend the JAE stock setup for those looking to make a dedicated long range scoped version of the M1A. 

I could not afford an M1A, and already had a stack of surplus HK G3 magazines from the 1990s. So I got a nice PTR-91 (H&K 91 clone) in 7.62x51.  It has a good US made match grade barrel, and an integral Picatinny rail on the receiver for easy optics mounting.   I put a Solar Tactical paddle, faux-flash hider, and a G3 mag button so I could use the G3 mags.  I mounted a Redfield Revenge 3x9 with .308 Bullet Drop Compensator on it.  Very sweet.

[Sdustin 578]

Protect and serve thanks for your service and thanks for not enforcing unconstitutional laws. I say don't move to a free state change California to a free state. You are In a better spot to make a difference in your state than most.

 

And I have to give a little good nature ragging.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Ak Monty