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Shooting the 23 round Tooth and Nail mag


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Similar to my last post, I would also like to add that the 23 round stick mag I used at the Iron Man was from Tooth and Nail.  In my first tests, I had some FTF and other issues, and had to "tune" this mag (per Jim's video on mka mag tuning).  Since then, It's run really well.  I did have one FTF that I think was mag related, but that was out of 69 rounds. Pretty darn good for a shotgun mag.  It sure helps having the extra rounds on the big stages, but holy smokes is it long.  And yes, sometimes that is a problem.  For example, Stage 8 of the Iron Man, you had to shoot all the shotgun under a wire spool turned on it's side.  No using the 23 rounder on that stage.  The Saiga drums worked much better on that stage.  The mag is not a problem on dump tables and MGM dump boxes...but barrels are another thing.  It's fine if you are abandoning the gun, another if you are retrieving it from the barrel.  You'll have to load your mag on the clock, whereas the shooters with drums and shorter mags will not.  

 

You can see this mag in the video links below, it's hard to miss. 

 

You can see on this stage, the Tooth and Nail mag ran great, with both slugs and shot:

http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/2014%20MGM%20Iron%20Man/VID_20140608_121530_599.mp4.html?sort=3&o=1

 

The mag problem at the end was caused by me ramming the mag in too hard, overriding the mag catch.  That is user error and man it was really stuck this time. I was about to tell the RO I was done, but it came free on my last yank.

 

In the next video, the Tooth and Nail mag ran well great as well.  My apologies to Tooth and Nail for directing you to a competitors Facebook page. For some reason, Photobucket keeps cutting off the shotgun portion of this video (at the end) and I'd like everyone to see the 23 round mag in action.  T and N - PM me and I will send you the video if you like, or post it on your page/youtube, whatever you'd like.  Again, sorry.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=789134927794115

 

In this video, you can see that on my next mag (a 15 rounder) I have a double feed.  That mag has been super dependable, but I need to check the feed lips, I bet they've gotten bent a little bit. 

 

In short (no pun intended), these are worth the cashola if you are a competitive shooter.  They might need a little TLC (feed lip tuning) just like every other MKA mag, but so far this mag has been as dependable as my other mags, and gives me an extra 8 rounds over the 15's. 

 

 

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Good to hear your report, I can't get the photobucket vid to load.

The mags(all of them, 5's 10's 10+) do need tuned for specific guns, as there are small differences in how the shell is presented.

 

On shooting through a low port, the 23 works fine just turn the gun sideways. The last big match we shot, had a stage specifically designed against mag fed SG's

A low port, the TOP of the port was 8" off the ground, 17 targets,  Joshua had the 2nd fastest time, I had the 3rd out of about 120 shooters.

 

Also shooting on the move with a SG will shave tons of time off your run.

 

ETA; we beat both Jerry and Kay M.  Joshua actually beat Jerry in overall match time (15.27 sec) but Jerry won in match points. Jerry got 3rd, Joshua got 4th in open

Edited by toothandnail
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 Just an observation, you spend way too much time standing still.  You may be saving time reloading but the time spent being encumbered by that mag is costing you.

The Iron Man stages are (as you can see) big.  The shotgun targets are a mix of targets from easy to hit plates to tiny little bastard KO plates.  I was using my IC choke, which was pretty tight for some of those small targets at closer ranges and wanted to make sure I didn't miss those little guys.  If you put a wider choke in, many times you can't knock down the KO's or bigger plates esp. at longer distances, and at the IM you'll see all of that on pretty much every stage...so pick your poison.

 

Both Stage 9 and 10 had shotgun targets on both sides of the shooter in a "gauntlet" type bay.  They do a good job of tucking some of the targets behind others and/or obstacles so that some are hard to see and it's easy to walk by them (I did this twice with the pistol on Stage 10).  I think they try to suck you in to going fast with some easy targets, and then get you with some tough/hard to see targets that are easy to blow by.  The stages are so big, it's hard (at least for me) to memorize all the targets. 

 

If you get in a hurry and walk by one you either have to come back (which burns a lot of time), blow it (and get a hefty Fail to Engage penalty) and/or risk breaking the 180.  You heard the RO warn me on Stage 10 on the 180 when I leaned back to pick up that 2nd pistol target I walked by.  I've learned that it's best for me to make hay where I can, but not to take chances or get in a hurry.  Other shooters will shoot it differently, with different results.

 

Moving faster would be great, would love to!  Both of these stages were examples of total shit shows for me, and I've learned when that happens, to slow down 10% and just get through the stage...don't get in a hurry and make things worse.  These videos aren't indicative of my best shooting, but I thought everyone would want to see the gun/mag in action. Also keep in mind that all the shooters from this part of the country are just getting into the swing of things.  We don't shoot 3 gun over the winter and by the time we go to the IM we've only shot a couple local matches.  We're different shooters by day 3 of the IM, and this was day 1.  Combine that with the fact that I'm crappy with a shotgun, and that's what you see. 

 

I've only been DQ'd once, and it was at the Iron Man 2 years ago.  Spending all the time and money to go to a big match only to end up DQ'ing really sucks, and frankly I'm a shooter who's probably going to end up somewhere between 8th and 15th in Open (lower if all my stages were like 10), so it doesn't make sense to get in a hurry and take chances or risk breaking the 180.

 

On both stages 9 and 10, I don't think the length of the mag limited my movement.  It was more about stage design and my game plan. 

Good to hear your report, I can't get the photobucket vid to load.

The mags(all of them, 5's 10's 10+) do need tuned for specific guns, as there are small differences in how the shell is presented.

 

On shooting through a low port, the 23 works fine just turn the gun sideways. The last big match we shot, had a stage specifically designed against mag fed SG's

A low port, the TOP of the port was 8" off the ground, 17 targets,  Joshua had the 2nd fastest time, I had the 3rd out of about 120 shooters.

 

Also shooting on the move with a SG will shave tons of time off your run.

 

ETA; we beat both Jerry and Kay M.  Joshua actually beat Jerry in overall match time (15.27 sec) but Jerry won in match points. Jerry got 3rd, Joshua got 4th in open

 

I did shoot under the spools sideways.  It was the only option other that turning the shotgun upside down.  The spools we shot under were small, so you didn't have enough room for a long mag like the 23.  My 15 barely fit and frankly caused me some problems.   There were targets in about a 150 degree field of fire from the spool.  Thankfully, I had staged my 10 rounders and ended up grabbing  the 10's in the middle of shooting the stage.

 

 

Edited by Montana3gunner
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Since then, It's run really well.  I did have one FTF that I think was mag related, but that was out of 69 rounds. Pretty darn good for a shotgun mag.

 

No offense, but something with a 1.5% failure rate I wouldnt take anywhere near a major match.

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As long as that failure isn't a double feed, and it's on a 23 round mag every 69 rounds, I'll take it. Many times it only takes about 1-2 seconds to clear an FTF, a simple rack in or out on the charging handle.   It seems to me that most of the Saiga drums experience the same amount of issues - and those are the ones that run well.  We had 3 Saigas with drums in my squad, and they had a couple FTFs per day, at least. 

 

I was really impressed with how the Versas ran as a group.  They had very few problems.  Granted, most are heavy modded and have a lot of Benelli parts in them, but our squad had very few issues.  So, I guess that's another option for Open shooters...there are guys shooting the Versas, with the longest mag tube they can find and using the load two technique. 

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As long as that failure isn't a double feed, and it's on a 23 round mag every 69 rounds, I'll take it. Many times it only takes about 1-2 seconds to clear an FTF, a simple rack in or out on the charging handle.  . 

 

Which could cost you a moving target, or a decent amount of points, if its on a fast stage.

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I did shoot under the spools sideways.  It was the only option other that turning the shotgun upside down.  The spools we shot under were small, so you didn't have enough room for a long mag like the 23.  My 15 barely fit and frankly caused me some problems.   There were targets in about a 150 degree field of fire from the spool.  Thankfully, I had staged my 10 rounders and ended up grabbing  the 10's in the middle of shooting the stage.

 

This pic will explain it better.  This is one of my friends and squadmates shooting his Versa under the shotgun spool.  I also had problems with turning the gun sideways and catching the bolt on the bottom of the spool.  I shot a lot left handed too to get the targets on the right.  I think I would have been better off crawling as far as I could under the spool (the rule was no further than your chest equal with the bottom of the spool) and using 10 rounders rather than shooting sideways.

 

 

gregspools3.png

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