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GreatLakesMolot

2014 Craftsmanship of the v12 (asking for help) photo/video

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Hi guys,   50kwhu.jpg

 

I am going to try and take notice here on the forum before a recent issue grows stale.

This should have been an easy sale, but unfortunately things are not working out as well as they should have.

 

Anyways, I recently took note of a highly regarded company that is known to build Vepr12 packages.

They toss together editions of Vepr12 that have all the features we ask for, and we pay a premium for that.

 

I purchased one this past month of June, when the time was financially right.

This Vepr12 was delivered in the original box to the FFL.

The FFL called me last Friday to tell me it came in, but the box was a bit mushed, bent, torn and all that good stuff we like to hear from our FFL on the phone.

After seeing the box, it was time to fully inspect this firearm more so than usual.

 

Next, I called the seller's place of business immediately to tell them there was damage and that I would contact them with the details after I go through it. 

The first thing I did was pull out the v12 to see that the safety was fixed in position on "fire".

There seems to be a small metal plate (trigger parts) in the way of the safety which cannot be placed on safe.

This same metal plate area which can be seen on the outside, may be blocking the folding latch as well.

Yes, the stock will not fold either, even after a hard press of the latch with  good folding motion attempts. The latch was now regarded as inactive.

 

The paint/finish looks as if it could have seen better days, as it is running down the receiver (yes, I know it is a Kalashnikov).

Oddly, the other paint finishes I've had through history, were as uniform as the ones in the case at the gunshops.

On the weekend, I'll have more time for comparing our basic Atlantic 2012 Vepr12 to the new custom shop Vepr12.

The gas ports seem to look different or there is black paint that is giving them an odd look with paint overstepping a boundary of the gas ports.

 

Two small aspects such as, the sights had mild rust on them, which was odd for a new firearm(yes, I know it is a Kalashnikov). Also, the buttstock's spring for the cheekpeice is under powered. It flops with mild pressure.

 

Today, being Wednesday evening, I have contacted the seller/builder multiple times through this week (Fri,Mon Tues,Wed), but only had a live chat with their staff on Monday. The associate took note and said that the gentleman I am looking for should have received the emails and all and will be contacting me.

Multiple emails have been sent by me as well.

 

The customer service was top notch when the build was being discussed, but as the money exchanged hands, there has been a lack of any communication.

I have not had an email, text, or call from them.

 

The Friday of the first attempt to tranfer, I left the v12 with my FFL and went home, deferring on acceptance of the FFL transfer and this vepr12 firearm.

The FFL called Monday to tell me a layaway item finally showed up and I could see him on Monday evening for it.

 

On the weekend, I went online to this seller/ V12 custom shop, and saw the terms that stated "once purchased,...no returns".

I was very upset that I was receiving less non functioning new firearm that could not be placed on safe among other things.

 

I should have received a new, as expected, top notch item.

 

Does the tab in the buttstock latch area look odd?

Does anyone here have any experience with their barrel pinning welds?

Can any members provide pics of a good V12 pin?

What do the majority of vepr12 weld beads look like?  I expected a smooth, but confident looking weld bead for any complyance issues?

 

 

I trying to show the inside of the barrel where I believe the weld burned through the chrome lining in a new barrel.

I think this model had a reminder of a washer on the latch area for the stock.

There are small new discoveries on the v12 every time I see it.

 

I hope the safety blockage is something simple.

The work done one this vepr12 was possibly the "strangest" I've seen in person.

If all is as bad as it seems, I would love a full refund, but it never that easy.

 

Some of the photos don't do enough.
I have a good amount of video.
 
Thanks for any help.

 

 

View My Video << click link for safety V12 fixed into open position.

 

View My Video<< Click for the V12 shipping box general overview.

 

 

 

 

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That weld looks horrible. I think you need to call out whoever this company is so we all know not to do business with them.

 

What exactly was custom? The only thing I see f different than my Atlantic vepr12 is the magpul grip which I now am using. And the 8 grade welding class weld on flash hider. Is the barrel shortened? As far as a refund if the gun won't go on safe id think they would be required it fix that. Id threaten calling the atf about them selling guns with deactivated safetys.

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That weld looks horrible. I think you need to call out whoever this company is so we all know not to do business with them.

 

What exactly was custom? The only thing I see f different than my Atlantic vepr12 is the magpul grip which I now am using. And the 8 grade welding class weld on flash hider. Is the barrel shortened? As far as a refund if the gun won't go on safe id think they would be required it fix that. Id threaten calling the atf about them selling guns with deactivated safetys.

 

They are an Advanced Business Member.... on S12 website.

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Who cares if they are sending out unsafe guns we all should know. And why block the folder? Have they said if they will fix it or not?

Edited by Ak Monty

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Who cares if they are sending out unsafe guns we all should know. And why block the folder? Have they said if they will fix it or not?

Fix?

I cannot get them to return an email, text, or call.

 

The FFL and those who saw it were quite amused though.

It was embarrassing after all the praise I gave it.

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He stated it was now 922 compliant with the addition of a US base plate to the mag, which was out of stock.

They said the 8rd magazine was part of the purchase. It is supposed to have the US base plate to comply.

The 8rd is said to be sent after the v12 sometime.

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I looked my vepr12 over the gas tube looks the same. I don't have a block in the folder mechanism. It shouldn't be too hard to remove. If you can't get arefund and are stuck with iti would make it good. I see centerfire systems has the stock vepr12 for 750 shipped. I don't see anything the vepr12 needs to need to buy a "custom" gun other than the shorter barrel.

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The seller and I are resolving any issues.

 

It's Monday, and the safety was worked in over the weekend.

This particular V12 may differ from the other vepr12 folders, but I have not seen much on these folding veprs.

 

I am only familiar with the Vepr12 that Atlantic and all the other distributors were parting with in 2012.

They were advertised with a fixed Tapco brand rear or solid wood stock.

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I looked at my folding mechanism and it doesn't have that little tab. If you look at that spot from the inside you should be able to remove whatever that is and make it fold. I really hope these issues get resolved. Id al

Ask about that weld it wasn't pretty at all.

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First off never accept a smashed box! always have it returned to sender! There is no excuse for not expecting safe delivery and if a carrier can not arrive packages safe they need to retrain or fire some employees.

 

Second, the vendor needs to make it right hands down. If they dont then dont do them any favors by not exposing them! You get what you paid for bottom line. If it was custom work it should have been tested and sent to you in working order.

 

And yes the weld is SHIT and ugly as hell. Thats amateur welding, I would expect that from a red neck back yard Harbor freight custom shop. I woudlnt want that on my custom firearm. I could weld like that if i wanted it on my gun. I wouldnt pay anyone for that. You could have taken it to a local high school kid in fab class and had it put on.

Edited by Chevyman097

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Variations that were noticed throughout the two different builds can be seen in the photos.

There is a particular feature that is included in this import 2014 model that has a relationship with the trigger, safety, and the folding stock latch. 

There is actually a metal bar that blocks the stock latch.

The model has to be placed in "Safe" mode to fold using an internal sliding "blocker bar".

This may be an importation law, but may be ok once it is in the states.

The original vepr12 from 2012 could accept an aftermarket folding stock and did not seem to require anything more to fold or freely use the safety when folded. 

The metal bar has two teeth up top of it's design which is in a  "V" or "U" shape.

This metal bar's teeth had been improperly meshing with the safety to allow free movement and function.

 

A variety of small and large issues were adding up to an eyebrow raising first impression.

 

I will post pics to try and educate myself and others through this thread.

If anyone is familiar with these variations seen on ports, trigger/safety areas, welds, or other, feel free to chime in.

 

The first three photos show the v12 "safety halves" coming together, as they touch the metal bar's "U" with teeth.

This area is very picky and can result in a stock latch or a safety that will not function.

 

I will add more than photos below tonight and this week.

There are a lot to sort out. 

 

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Edited by GreatLakesMolot

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The no-fire-when-folded linkage has nothing to do with the US market. It is relevant to the Russian civilian market. Only the VPO-205-00 has it.

 

It can be removed in one piece without damaging the weapon.

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So was the safety broke or was it just something you were unfamiliar with? And the weld still needs addressed.

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So was the safety broke or was it just something you were unfamiliar with? And the weld still needs addressed.

 

 

Yes, the safety was inoperable. The FFL and I both observed. I have some footage as well, but it also contains serials private info.

At first, I thought the runny paint was overspray that made the stock fixed.

It is not advertised that his model has a particular non folding design feature.

 

They offered the v12 to be touched up and to file down the weld so it is more flush with the barrel with free shipping.

I am hesitant to let it out of my possession as long as it fires properly though.

 

The little bar that works with the safety may have had trigger metal installation boogers in there too.

I can watch the video a few times, but it mostly just shows restricted movement.

 

It was not until I had taken apart the items and then put them back when it felt like it was working itself into a functioning fluid movement. 

The trigger area  was a little gritty with shavings but, I don't believe they were enough to clog up stuff.

 

Could the loose packaging or box damage have signs of a hard hit? Yes...

This may have tossed off the internals, but I still don't think that was the problem.

 

In the end, I think it needed some more TLC, from point A to B as well as some more attention to detail.

There was no rush what soever on my end to get the build in a hurry.

Edited by GreatLakesMolot

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So was the safety broke or was it just something you were unfamiliar with? And the weld still needs addressed.

ETA: This is work that was either done by Molot or the importer. I have no clue which and have no desire to inquire about it.

 

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Edited by evlblkwpnz

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Is that "pinned", welded, or what? specifically...


 

 

ETA: This is work that was either done by Molot or the importer. I have no clue which and have no desire to inquire about it.

 

attachicon.gifv12 factory perm1.JPG

attachicon.gifv12 factory perm2.JPG

attachicon.gifv12 factory perm3.JPG

 


 

ETA: This is work that was either done by Molot or the importer. I have no clue which and have no desire to inquire about it.

 

 

The seller stated : "there is no way to pin a muzzle brake onto a shotgun, the barrel is too thin. The only other way is welding or silver solder. We can do silver solder but it would be a lot more expensive for the labor and we would have to repaint the shotgun".

Edited by GreatLakesMolot

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There is a way to pin/weld muzzle devices on a shotgun, but it isn't easy, fast, or economical.

 

I am just speculating, but I think the safety issue you are having is to do with the rear of the G2 vs the safety. The tail of the trigger may need to be fitted to the safety. Can you rotate the safety upward and remove it?

Edited by evlblkwpnz

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The muzzle device may be pinned just as easily as the gas blocks are:)     The barrel has a little bit more diameter/wall thickness at the gas block, but it is not a problem and no big deal as long as you have enough wall thickness on the muzzle brake.  Need to have a vertical mill or a good heavy duty drill press with a compound table/vise to do it professionally and without fucking it up.

 

Jack

Edited by JTE

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There is a way to pin/weld muzzle devices on a shotgun, but it isn't easy, fast, or economical.

 

I am just speculating, but I think the safety issue you are having is to do with the rear of the G2 vs the safety. The tail of the trigger may need to be fitted to the safety. Can you rotate the safety upward and remove it?

 

Yes, I can remove the safety.

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In the sections that I had used the phrase "pinned", I was referring to any general or proper method for the job that would place it in the correct "pinned" category of becoming one overall barrel.

I do understand that rifle projects commonly have a true "pinned" brake or attachment of a device.

 

I may have a chance to fire off two testfire V12 oem magazines today.

 

Lastly, the US magazine baseplate is longer than the OEM Russian baseplate that comes from Molot.

It is one solid slab of metal reaching about a few MM past and out of the Molot factory mag.

 

I'd like to find out if anyone has been experiencing this. 

Edited by GreatLakesMolot

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Yes, it can be pinned in the usual context of the word pinned. It doesn't make sense on a manufacturer or importer level though. They need to do things much faster/cheaper to keep the cost of the firearm down. Most people just want things as cheap as possible and then a subsection of those people are going to have something else installed on it anyways, so doing a great job on the perm doesn't really make sense at that level. I do not envy importers. There is obviously money there, but they are in a hell of a position. 

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