Jump to content

Help!! Minimize Kick,Recoil In a Saiga 12??


Recommended Posts

I have use an AR15 to hunt hogs from a helicopter for a few months now. But I am switching to a Saiga 12, since the hogs are still running after rounds hit them. But my Saiga 12 has a hell of a kick (ALOT more than my AR) and I will be going through 50-100 rounds per day. My shoulder will be sore and I don't want to support the Advil company. anger.gif

 

So what are the best ways to make the Saiga 12 not kick so much. I have been told a flash suppressor that vents the gasses back towards me. Is there a stock that has a spring that absorbes the kick? What other things can I add that will reduce the kick and muzzle climb?

Link to post
Share on other sites

You've got some options.

Kick lite stock

Monster break does a lot of good. Down sides are the price and length. If you have your barrel chopped and perm attached you'll have to have your gas system modified to compensate for decreased dwell time. But this will be the most effective break.  

If your using 3" shells switch to 2.75"

Any recoil pad, will help tame it a bit. Just choosing a comfortable stock in general with a WIDE foot print.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Options:

Kickeez or libsaver reocoil pad.

Mercury tube in stock. http://www.mercuryrecoil                           .com/

good comp: likely options include: Molot GKo1 or clone, Tromix mini monster, JT competitoin. plenty of others too.

 

Springy pogo stock. 

sophisticated shot stock which is basically a shock absorber. nokick.     com

 

IMO, start with the kickeeze and a comp, find a good 7/8 oz slug load, then see how that goes. You will get a better trajectory with that load any way. Just make sure you pick something hard cast and breneke style.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The gun's recoil "kicks" you when you don't hold it like you should. Pull the butt of the gun into your shoulder instead of letting the recoil do it. Problem solved.

Edited by Yeoldetool
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Saiga12 is not a hard-recoiling shotgun. It's actually one of the softest recoiling 12s I have. My 11-87 is FAR worse, and it's a gas gun too. My little Russian double 12 kicked like a bitch until I cut long cones in it. It was BRUTAL. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The gun needs to fit YOU. My pellet rifle has an uncomfortable recoil because the stock is too short and digs my shoulder when I pull it up high enough to get a good sight line. When the shotgun is raised to give you the proper sight line the but must fit your shoulder.  Bring the but TO your shoulder, sight the target and THEN roll your shoulder into the but firmly. If the gun fits and is held firmly into the shoulder then the two of you will recoil together. If the gun does not fit, or is not FIRMLY or COMFORTABLY into the shoulder, then it will impact the shoulder like a sledge hammer! Anytime you are not "one with the gun" the recoil will be unpleasant.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

To the guys advising him to hold it differently... He is apparently already an accomplished shooter. He knows how to hold a gun. He just said he is planning to fire hundreds of hot slugs a day on a regular basis and wants to make the gun itself take some of that load. A recoil pad, etc is clearly going to make that more comfortable. Even if you like a triangular steel stock with sharp corners, you have to admit this. Come down off of that horse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so high, and the comparison from accomplished with a recoil-less AR to any other gun is absurd. You can set the butt of an AR on top of your shoulder and nose to the charging handle. Don't do that with a shotgun with ANY stock on it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To the guys advising him to hold it differently... He is apparently already an accomplished shooter. He knows how to hold a gun. He just said he is planning to fire hundreds of hot slugs a day on a regular basis and wants to make the gun itself take some of that load. A recoil pad, etc is clearly going to make that more comfortable. Even if you like a triangular steel stock with sharp corners, you have to admit this. Come down off of that horse.

 

Thanks for all the help to you all... big_smile.gif

 

I have shot my Sig12 and it is positioned perfect... It is after 40 or so my shoulder gets sore... My AR I would average 200 rounds per hunt and then I would get sore.. Those hogs can take hits unless behind the head... When thier in full sprint and I am hanging out of the heli...About 4 shots per hog, that is why I am switching to the Saiga 12... I will be using 00 buck, since it his higher kill racio... I will be reloading mine so thanks for the 2.75 instead of the 3" shells... I know recoil is in the rounds too...

 

As for hunting with me... there are about 10 companies here in Texas that will take sportman up for about $700... I shoot alone as per my insurance and tiny heli

 

Ill tell you when I was 150lbs the helis were small... I am 220 now and they are smaller... I more hang outside on the skids more than inside... Those that know helis I shoot from an R22.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A good brake would help, but you'll get nasty muzzle blast, esp. with 3" high powered slugs.

I have a '95 Marlin that was brutal with the factory pad on it. (300 gr HP bullet @  >2000FPS). I installed a really soft gel pad and it's much better.

These two things should help you out some.

 

I'm glad to see someone helping to control the feral hog population. They're pests.

Edited by patriot
Link to post
Share on other sites

In that case, I suggest a ~1400 FPS load using 9 pellets and WSF. Perhaps the federal 12S3 wad. (9 pellets = 1 1/8 oz so look for feild birdshot data with those components for that weight and just sub in the buckshot. You'll get a better pattern than buckshot without the cup too.)


Also, the remington gun club hulls are getting to be about my favorite for most things. They almost always load to the same data as the STS, but are plentiful for free, and are cheap enough (free) that you won't mind losing them as you shoot. They tend to crimp well too. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

From RCBS's manual current edition: for 1 1/8 oz birdshot (so a good sub for 9 pellets of OOB).STS hull( gun club works to same data, just loads a few less times).

 

recipe version 1: STS  hull/ win 209 primer/ 29.0 grn WSF powder/ Fed 12S3 Wad/ 1 1/8 oz shot= 1400 FPS @9,500 PSI

 

recipe version 2: STS  hull/ win 209 primer/ 31.9 grn longshot powder/ Fed 12S3 Wad/ 1 1/8 oz shot= 1420 FPS @8,500 PSI

 

Off the shelf standard field OOB 9 pellet 2 3/4" loads are 1325 FPS with fairly crude shot not stacked in. No shotcup, sometimes buffered. Hence the crappy patterns you get with standard stuff like remington and winchester sell. If you look for distalradius's Xray thread here, you will see how production remington ammo is not stacked. - So loading the loads I suggest above will have a little more kick than the standard load if you load them all the way. They should pattern better too though. The advantage will be better penetration in tough piggies, and a slightly more forgiving lead from your helicopter. If you are hunting smaller pigs that don't take as much to go down, you might be better served with 12 pellets of #1 buck to a similar velocity. You'll need different data for that, as the weight is a little higher.  (~1 1/4 oz).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one to ask, "Why are you shooting more than 1 round per kill?"

Seems to me you need to be a better shot, now dont get in a huff, I am not the best shot.

However at 100s of rounds a day, the S12 will hurt, I dont care what you do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one to ask, "Why are you shooting more than 1 round per kill?"

Seems to me you need to be a better shot, now dont get in a huff, I am not the best shot.

However at 100s of rounds a day, the S12 will hurt, I dont care what you do.

.223 is minimal for feral hogs. Thus the need for more than one round. 12GA slug? Not so much. I'd use no less than 308 in a semi unless going with slugs. Still, I'd want a semi from a chopper, for ease of use, and for a rapid, safe follow up shot on the ground. A feral hog will run you down and KILL you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one to ask, "Why are you shooting more than 1 round per kill?"

Seems to me you need to be a better shot, now dont get in a huff, I am not the best shot.

However at 100s of rounds a day, the S12 will hurt, I dont care what you do.

 

Those hogs can take hits to the body by an AR round... I have shot many hogs 4 to 5 times before they went down.. When thier in full sprint and I am hanging out of the heli... The hogs are running and my pilot has to keep up with them... Moving turbulance and the hogs changing direction... Snipers can't do 1 shot 1 kills from Helis... Too many variables... Hope that answers your question.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in agreement with the recoil pad suggestions. Its the obvious and most affordable first step.

 

What stock is on your S12 now? Completely factory? You might add some weight inside the stock (since its practically weightless and also practically free) and see if that improves things for you as well. Since you won't be carrying it around a (never heli shot and probably never will, but I always assumed a GOOD sling/harness was in use for the gun) the weight shouldn't be too big of a downer for you.

 

In regard to technique of holding the gun, I'm going to guess there are plenty of times when a shot is less than ideal for your comfort, but is the best shot you're going to get when you're on a helicopter. So even if everything was perfect its probably still not perfect. ;)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you've gotten a lot of helpful suggestions here - muzzle brakes, recoil-reducing stocks, and recoil pads.

Now you just need to hunt with a 20-round drum - once you hang all that shit on your shotgun, it'll weigh so much there will hardly be any recoil.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I regularly shoot  200 to 250 rounds per day with my S12 with no discomfort..   Secrets: 1) Stock custom to me  2) 1" recoil pad on ACE ARFX stock 3)  Don't over gas the gun - set enough to cycle reliably but not more  4) Molot GK-01 brake  5) when shooting slugs  use Fiocchi Aero Rifle Slug ,  2 3/4"  7/8 oz, 1300 fps.  part # 12LESLUG.  6) set up with  progressive springs  11# front, 17# rear. 

 

 

 

post-31037-0-92021200-1404793032_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you've gotten a lot of helpful suggestions here - muzzle brakes, recoil-reducing stocks, and recoil pads.

 

Now you just need to hunt with a 20-round drum - once you hang all that shit on your shotgun, it'll weigh so much there will hardly be any recoil.

 

and buy one quick as they are being discontinued from MD...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...