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Help!! Minimize Kick,Recoil In a Saiga 12??


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The rumor I read was from GunFun who is generally not known to spout false info. I questioned MD but haven't heard anything in at least 2 weeks. I think my email problems with MD are somewhat famous so I asked the question through the forum. Nada.

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Am I the only one to ask, "Why are you shooting more than 1 round per kill?"

Seems to me you need to be a better shot, now dont get in a huff, I am not the best shot.

However at 100s of rounds a day, the S12 will hurt, I dont care what you do.

.223 is minimal for feral hogs. Thus the need for more than one round. 12GA slug? Not so much. I'd use no less than 308 in a semi unless going with slugs. Still, I'd want a semi from a chopper, for ease of use, and for a rapid, safe follow up shot on the ground. A feral hog will run you down and KILL you.

 

 

.308 sounds like the right answer.  Higher capacity mags, longer effective distance vs slug

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A Kicklite stock is good.  One hell of a lot better than the one Century put on mine!  Doesn't sap the action at all.

 

Will agree also about fine tunning the gas system for the slugs you're using.  Don't know if MD has their multiple position plugs anymore.  Haven't seen them in stock in the store in quite some time.

 

As an old OH-58 crewchief, would LOVE to go helicopter hunting!!!!  Miss doorgunnery alot!!!

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I will be using "OO" pellets, since they spread. I am also looking into the resin Winchester Long Beard XR uses, that extends the tight grouping at up to 40 yards. Usually our minimum altitude due to trees. We usually fly at 50'- 200' depending on the trees.

 

I will be reloading, so I thank GunFun for the reloading help also.

 

This is by far the most informative forum!!!!

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Another great resource is Precision Reloading's manuals. There are loads for pretty much everything you could want in there. The out of print book, Blanks to supersonics is great too, if you can find a copy.

 

Here's another great resource for manuals and components:

 

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Reloading-Manuals/products/16/

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Another great resource is Precision Reloading's manuals. There are loads for pretty much everything you could want in there. The out of print book, Blanks to supersonics is great too, if you can find a copy.

 

Here's another great resource for manuals and components:

 

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Reloading-Manuals/products/16/

 

What book woud be the book for long range 00 for reloading?? I am not too schooled on shotshells, and there are alot to choose from. What would you recommend for reloading my .410 (My Taurus Judge Defender) and my Saiga 12g Loads??

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MD posted about it, IIRC in his doublestack video thread. I don't feel like crawling through the whole thing.

 

The post was something like '~final batch of production on MD20s is going on the website, get em while they're hot because these are the last' - That was the gist anyway.

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Another great resource is Precision Reloading's manuals. There are loads for pretty much everything you could want in there. The out of print book, Blanks to supersonics is great too, if you can find a copy.

 

Here's another great resource for manuals and components:

 

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Reloading-Manuals/products/16/

 

What book woud be the book for long range 00 for reloading?? I am not too schooled on shotshells, and there are alot to choose from. What would you recommend for reloading my .410 (My Taurus Judge Defender) and my Saiga 12g Loads??

 

 

Ballistic products has this: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Buckshot-Loading-Manual-4th-ed/productinfo/00MBUCK/, but from what I understand, most of the loads are labor intensive and require components from them. I suppose it would be nice to have, but RCBS is the most versatile manual and offers spicier data than most

 

 

IMO get this instead http://www.midwayusa.com/product/890340/rcbs-handbook-of-shotshell-reloading-reloading-manual

 

It's way better than the lyman book for the reasons I discuss here: 

 

Most of the book loads I find for buckshot use either old fashioned fiber wad type setups that pattern so-so,  or Win AA12, which I think is too weak for the payload and velocity, and tends to buckle with big payload stacks on crimp. Moreover, they are hard to find at the moment.

 

IMO, choose a data combo which allows you to use Federal 12S3 or 12S4 and gets you a little more velocity. Chokes are nice too. Federal Gold Medal Hulls are really nice, but are kind of premium for something you are going to lose. Standard 9 pellet OOB load is 1325 FPS, so anything around 1400 is going to kick harder, but give you a little more penetration, and less of a lead. If you get fine penetration with standard loads, simply choose data for ~1325 FPS and spare your shoulder.

 

Here is a potentially good load from the RCBS book (pg 209) for 1 1/8 oz of birdshot ( The same weight and bulk as 9 pellets of OOB)

Stout version: Rem STS hull: Fed209A primer/ 31.1 grns longshot powder/ Fed 12s3 wad/ 1 1/8 oz of lead (= 9 pellets OOb) : 1475 FPS @1160 psi.

Hotter than standard 9 pellet load, and should group better from the wad: same recipe, but only 29.4 grains Longshot for 1420 FPS.

 

 
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GUYS,

   SPOKE WITH A COUPLE OF THE PEOPLE AT MESA TACTICAL AT THE END OF LAST WEEK ABOUT THEIR "CROSSHAIR" HYDRAULIC RECOIL BUFFER.

 

   ACCORDING TO THEM, IT IS THE SAME AS THE ITT/ENIDINE UNIT, BUT NOW MFG.'D BY ACE CONTROLS.COM IN MICHIGAN.

 

   WENT TO THEIR W-SITE TO LOOK UP SOME DETAIL ON IT, BUT THEY HAVE SEVERAL DIFFERENT CATALOGS, ACCORDING TO THE TYPE OF BUFFER YOU NEED, ALL OF WHICH ARE FOR INDUSTRIAL USES.

 

   I NEVER DID FIND IT, AS I HAD OTHER THINGS TO DO, AND DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO SORT THROUGH ALL THEIR CATALOGS, BUT IT WASN'T PROMINENTLY ADVERTISED.

 

   PERHAPS THEY ARE "GUN SHY" ABOUT LETTING THE GENERAL PUBLIC KNOW THAT THEY ARE MAKING SOMETHING FOR A GUN.

 

  IT DOES CARRY THE SAME PART NO. AS THE ORIGINAL ENIDINE DID, P/N 92190, AND IF YOU'LL NOTICE IN YOUR BROWSER, WHEN YOU CLICK ON IT, THEY ARE STILL CALLING IT THE ENIDINE.

 

   PRICE IS STILL $150, AS WAS THE ORIGINAL ENIDINE.

 

   ANYWAY, ON MY S-12, ALL I HAVE FOR RECOIL MITIGATION IS A VENTILATED POLY CHOKE, THAT I LEAVE ON IMPROVED MODIFIED, THE ORIGINAL ENIDINE BUFFER, AND A SNAP-ON LIMBSAVER RECOIL PAD ON THE M4 STOCK (YOU'LL NEED THE MILITARY SIZE M4 STOCK, OR IT WILL RATTLE).

 

   THAT, AND THE FACT THAT THE THING WEIGHS 14LB ON THE HOOF WITH A PRO-MAG 15RND LOADED DRUM IN PLACE, YOU COULD SHOOT 3" MAGS ALL DAY, AND PROBABLY NEVER BE SORE, OR BRUISED.

 

   JUS' MY 2c.gif

 

   JESS1344

Edited by JESS1344
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YOOPER,

   THE ONLY CONCERN I HAVE WITH THE ENIDINE, IS THAT THE THICKNESS OF THE HEADS OF THE SOCKET HEAD CAP SCREWS PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING MORE THAN 4 OR 5 THREADS OF THE ENIDINE SCREWED INTO THE PIG NOSE.

 

   IT MAKES ME WONDER IF THE ASYMETRICAL THRUST, UNDER HEAVY AND REPEATED LOADS COULD CAUSE THE PIG NOSE TO SPLIT, OR STRIP THE THREADS, AND YOU END UP EATING THE BACK OF THAT S/V-12.

 

   IF YOU'RE USING THE REGULAR HOLLOW BUFFER TUBE, YOU CAN POSITION THOSE CAP SCREWS A BIT MORE INBOARD, ALLOWING YOU TO SCREW THE HOLLOW BUFFER TUBE ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PIG NOSE.

 

   THE SOLUTION IS A DEEPER  PIG NOSE, SUFFICIENTLY DEEPER TO TAKE ALL THE THREADS ON THE ENIDINE.

 

   I'VE SPOKEN TO A COUPLE OF OUTFITS THAT MFG. THESE PIG NOSES, AND THEY WERE LIKE "DO WHAT"; JUST COULDN'T CONCEPTUALIZE WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

 

   I JUST TOLD 'EM BOTH "AAAH, NEVER MIND" AND HUNG UP.........

 

   ANY MANUFACTURERS ON-BOARD HERE THAT ARE WILLING TO TAKE THIS UP, PARTICULARLY NOW THAT THE ENIDINE/CROSSHAIR RECOIL BUFFER IS BACK IN PRODUCTION, HMMMMMMM?

 

   THE MORE WE TALK-UP THE ENIDINE/CROSSHAIR ON HERE, THE MORE DEMAND THERE WILL BE FOR IT, AND THEREFORE FOR THE DEEPER PIG NOSE.

 

   AN ENTERPRISING PERSON COULD EVEN TALK WITH THE MFG'R OF THE CROSSHAIR, AND SELL THEM THAT PIECE TO GO WITH THE CROSSHAIR DIRECT FROM THE FACTORY.

 

   JUS' SAYIN'

 

   JESS1344

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It looks like Im a little late to this party but I'll add a little.  Last year I used a Mako recoil absorbing stock and a limbsaver pad.  200 rds 1st time out and didn't feel a thing afterwards.  This year I did a makeover and am using an Enidine buffer with Magpul stock and limbsaver pad.  Also a 21 port muzzle brake.  Haven't been out yet.  Last 4 mos I have been preoccupied with finding my missing child so I haven't finished yet.  Still have to paint and dip.  Take a look at IronHammerArmory. They have a new rear trunion made for mil spec M4/AR stock tubes.  Also, NoKickdotcom is a good starting point for anti-recoil parts.

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  • 2 months later...

I recommend getting a Y chromosome :)  KIDDING!! I just really wanted to make that joke!

 

Now for an actual contribution:  I didn't see anybody mention the Remington Managed Recoil slugs. Slugs are are about making a big hole and having TONS of momentum, not necessarily energy. Even pushed a little slower, managed recoil slugs still have lots of momentum, because all slugs are so flippin' heavy.

 

I do think a .308 AR would probably be less of a force-fit for the application, though. 

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Have you considered getting the recoil reducing stock from century? I have one and the thing works amazingly well. Recoil from a slug feels a little (and I mean slightly more) than birdshot. I really love this stock and in conjunction with the Molot copy gk-01, It controls recoil amazingly well.

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It looks like Im a little late to this party but I'll add a little.  Last year I used a Mako recoil absorbing stock and a limbsaver pad.  200 rds 1st time out and didn't feel a thing afterwards.  This year I did a makeover and am using an Enidine buffer with Magpul stock and limbsaver pad.  Also a 21 port muzzle brake.  Haven't been out yet.  Last 4 mos I have been preoccupied with finding my missing child so I haven't finished yet.  Still have to paint and dip.  Take a look at IronHammerArmory. They have a new rear trunion made for mil spec M4/AR stock tubes.  Also, NoKickdotcom is a good starting point for anti-recoil parts.

Any luck finding your child?
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this http://www.themakogroup.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1044357&CAT=8674 plus a monster brake and you will be good to go!

 

Dont mind the first rd FTE but you can see the stock taking all the recoil. and the monster brake eats it up as well. 

 

http://youtu.be/-xOOryc6XSo?list=UUbF8Ng2iGSlzDEpluaOLYsg

 

http://youtu.be/W-SCzwob570?list=UUbF8Ng2iGSlzDEpluaOLYsg

 

Really helps with high brass shells.

 

http://youtu.be/xiZeALhKh84?list=UUbF8Ng2iGSlzDEpluaOLYsg

 

here is a video showing how much the stock moves.

 

http://youtu.be/1hlyY1rccLI?list=UUbF8Ng2iGSlzDEpluaOLYsg

Edited by shifty_85
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